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Outlaws by Dnevnik
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Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 04:56
Prispevkov: 17767
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 Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 03:17 Naslov sporočila: Pa berite zelo počasi... |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqv3Ii9BbDQ
LONG LIVE ROCK AND ROLL!"!!
I was born to a moderate religious family. From my mother’s side I have few relatives who are Ayatollahs. Although my grandfather was a skeptic, in the family were I grew religion has been the pivot around which our lives revolved. My parents were not much fond of the Mullahs. In fact we did not have much to do with our more fundamentalist relatives. We liked to think of ourselves as believing in the “real Islam” not the one taught and practiced by the Mullahs.
I recall discussing religion with the husband of one of my aunts when I was about 15 years old. He was a fanatical Muslim who was much concerned about the fiqh. (Islamic jurisprudence). It determines the way Muslims should pray, fast, run their public and private lives, do business, clean themselves, use the toilet and even copulate. I argued that this has nothing to do with the real Islam, that it is a fabrication of the Mullahs and that excessive attention to fiqh diminishes the impact and the importance of the pure message of Islam that is a religion to unite man with his creator. This view is mostly inspired by Sufism. Many Iranians, thanks to the Rumi's poems, are to a great degree Sufis in their outlook
In my early youth I noticed discriminations and cruelties against the members of religious minorities in Iran. This was more noticeable in provincial towns where the level of education was low and the mullahs had a better grip over the gullible people. Due to my father’s work we spent few years in small towns out of the capital. I recall our teacher made a schedule to take the class for swimming. We were excited and looked forward to it. In our class there were a couple of kids who were Baha'is and Jews. The teacher did not let them accompany us. He said that they are not allowed to swim in the same pool that Muslims swim. I cannot forget the disappointment of these kids who left the school with tears in their eyes, subdued and heartbroken. At that age, may be nine or ten, I could not make sense of this injustice. I thought it was the kid’s fault for not being Muslims, but still I was sad.
I believe that I was lucky for having open-minded parents who encouraged me to think critically. They tried to instill in me the love of God and his messenger yet upheld humanistic values like equality of rights between man and woman and love for all humankind. In a sense, this is how most modern Iranian families were. In fact the majority of Muslims who have some education believe that Islam is a humanistic religion that respects human rights, that elevates the status of women and protects their rights. Most Muslims believe that Islam means peace.
I spent my early youth in this sweet dream. Advocating the “real Islam” as I thought it should be and criticizing the mullahs and their deviations from the real teachings of Islam. I idealized an Islam that conformed to my own humanistic values. Of course my imaginary Islam was a beautiful religion. It was a religion of equality and of peace. It was a religion that encouraged its followers to go after knowledge and be inquisitive. It was a religion that was in harmony with science and reason. In fact, I thought that science got its inspiration from this religion. The Islam that I believed, was a religion that sparkled the modern science, which eventually bore its fruits in the West and made the modern discoveries and inventions possible. Islam, as I used to believe, was the real cause of the modern civilization. The reason Muslims were living is such a miserable state of ignorance was all the fault of the self-centered Mullahs and the religious leaders who for their own personal gain had misinterpreted the real teachings of Islam, I thought.
Muslims, honestly believe that the great Western civilization has its roots in Islam. They recall great Middle Eastern scientific minds whose contributions to the science have been crucial in the birth of Modern science.
Omar Khayyam was a great mathematician who calculated the length of the year with a precision of .74% of a second. Zakaria Razi can very well be regarded as one of the first founders of empirical science who based his knowledge on research and experimentation. Avicenna's (Bu Ali Sina) monumental encyclopedia of medicine was taught in European universities for centuries. There are so many more great luminaries who have “Islamic names” who have been the pioneers of modern science when Europe was languishing in the medieval Dark Ages. Like all Muslims I used to believe that all these great men were Muslims, that they had been inspired by the wealth of hidden knowledge that is in the Quran and that if the today's Muslims could regain the original purity of Islam, the long lost glorious days of Islam will return and the Muslims will lead the advancement of the World civilization once again.
Yet the reality was harsher than dream. Iran was a Muslim country but it was also a corrupt country. The chance of getting to university was slim. Only one in ten of the applicants could get to the university and often they were forced to choose subjects that they did not want to study because they could not get enough points for the subjects of their choice. The students with right connections often got the seats.
The Regime of the Shah was a repressive regime and freedoms of thoughts were suppressed. People feared each other as each person could be an informer or a secret agent of the dreaded SAVAK (Shah's secret police). I was always outspoken and hardly had any tact to keep my mouth shut when my life was in danger. The standard of education in Iran was not ideal. Universities were under-funded; as Shah preferred building a powerful military might and become the gendarme of the Middle East than build the infrastructure of the country and invest in people’s education. All these were factors that my father thought I would be better off if I leave Iran and continue my education elsewhere.
We considered America and Europe but my father, acting upon the counsel of a few of his religious friends thought another Islamic country would be better for a 16 year old boy. We were told that the West is too lax in morality, that people are pervert, that the beaches are full of nudes, that they drink and have licentious lifestyles and all that could represent a danger to a young man. So I was sent to Pakistan instead. Pakistan being a religious country was safe. People were religious and therefore moral. A friend of the family told us that Pakistan is just like England, except that it is cheaper.
This, of course, proved to be untrue. I found Pakistanis were as immoral and corrupt as Iranians. Yes they were very religious. Yes they did not eat pork and I saw no one consuming alcohol in public, but I noticed they had dirty minds, they lied, they were hypocrites, and they were cruel to the women and above all filled with hatred of the Indians. I did not find them better than Iranians in any ways. They were religious but not moral or ethical.
In college I did not take Urdu and instead I took Pakistani Culture to complete my A level FSc (Fellow of Science). I learned the reason for Pakistan's partition from India and for the first time heard about Muhammad Ali Jinah, the man Pakistanis called Qaid-e A’zam, the great leader. He was presented as an intelligent man, the Father of the Nation, while Gandhi was spoken of in a derogatory way. Even then, I could not but to side with Gandhi and condemn Jinnah as an arrogant and ambitious man who was the culprit for breaking up a country and causing millions of deaths. You can say I always had a mind of my own and was a maverick in my thinking. No matter what I was taught, I always came to my own conclusion and did not believed what I was told.
I did not see the difference of religion enough reason to break up a country. The very word Pakistan seemed to be an insult to the Indians. They called themselves pak (clean) to distinguish themselves from the Indians who were najis (unclean). Ironically I never saw a people dirtier than the Pakistanis both physically and mentally. It was disappointing to see another Islamic nation in such an intellectual and moral bankruptcy. In my discussions with my friends I failed to convince anyone of the “real Islam”. I condemned their bigotry and fanaticism while they disapproved of me for my un-Islamic views.
I told that to my father and decided to go to Italy for my university studies. In Italy people drank wine and ate pork. But I found they were more hospitable, friendlier and less hypocrite than Muslims. I noticed people were willing to help without expecting something in return. I met an elderly couple that was very hospitable to me. They called me on Sundays to have lunch with them and not stay home alone. They did not want anything from me. They just wanted to have someone to give their love. I was almost a grandson to them. Only those who have come to a new country, who do not know anyone and cannot speak even the language can appreciate how much the help and hospitality of the locals is worth.
Their house was sparklingly clean and the floor was marble and always shiny. This contradicted my idea of the Westerners. Although my family was very open towards other people, Islam had taught me that the non-Muslims are najis (Q.9:2 and one should not take them as friends. I had a copy of the Quran that I still have and used to read from it often. The verses were underlined with a Farsi translation. I came across this verse:
“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya’ to one another…Q.5: 51
I had difficulty understanding the wisdom of such verse. I wondered why I should not befriend with this wonderful elderly couple that had no ulterior motives in showing me their hospitality than just making me feel at home. I thought that they were “real Muslims” and I tried to raise the subject of religion hoping they will see the truth of Islam and embrace it. But they were not interested and politely changed the subject. I was not that stupid to believe that all non-believers will go to hell at anytime in my life. I suppose I read this in the Quran before but never wanted to think about it. I simply brushed it off or wanted to close my eyes to it. Of course, I knew that God would be pleased if someone recognized his messenger but never thought he would actually be that cruel to burn someone in Hell for eternity, even if that person is the author of all the good deeds just because he was not a Muslim. I read the following warning:
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). Q 3:85,
Yet I paid little heed and tried to convince myself that the meaning is something else than what it appears to be. At that moment this was not a subject that I was ready to handle. So I did not think about it.
I hanged around with my Muslim friends and noticed that most of them lived a very immoral life of double standards. Most of them found girlfriends and slept with them. That was very un-Islamic, or so I thought at that time. What bothered me most was the fact that they did not value these girls as real human beings that deserved respect. These girls were not Muslim girls and therefore were used just for sex. This attitude was not general. Those who made less show of religiosity were more respectful and sincere towards their western girlfriends and some even loved them and wanted to marry them, but paradoxically those who were more religious were less faithful towards their girlfriends. I had such high esteem of religion in my mind that it was hard for me to relate the immoral and callous behavior of the Muslims to what is being taught in Islam. I always thought that the true Islam is what is right. If something is immoral, unethical, dishonest or cruel, it cannot be Islam.
Years later I realized that the truth is completely the reverse. I found many verses that were disturbing and made me revise my whole opinion of Islam.
The funny thing was that the same very people who lived, according to me, unethically and immorally were the ones who called themselves Muslims, said their prayers, fasted and were the first to defend Islam angrily if anyone raised a question about it. They where the ones who would lose their temper and start a fight if someone dared to say a word against Islam.
Once I met a young Iranian man at the University restaurant. I sat next to him and became his friend. Later I introduced him to two other Muslim friends of mine. We were all of the same age but he was an erudite young man full of virtues and wisdom. I was captivated by his charm and high moral values, and so my other two friends. We used to wait for him and sit next to him during the lunch hours as we always learned something from him. We used to eat a lot of spaghetti and risotto and were craving for a good Persian ghorme sabzi and chelow. Our friend said that his mother had sent him some dried vegetables and invited us to go to his house the next Sunday for lunch. We found his two-room apartment very clean, unlike the houses of other guys. He had made us the delicious ghorme sabzi that all of us ate with a lot of gusto and then we sat back chatting and sipping our tea. It was then that among his books we found some Baha’i books. When we asked about it, he said that he was a Baha’i. Of course that did not bother me at all but on the way back home my two friends said that they do not wish to continue their friendship with him anymore. I was surprised and asked why! They said that being a Baha’i makes him a najis person and had they knew that he was a Baha’i, they would not have befriended him. I was puzzled and enquired why they think he was najis if we all were complementing him on his cleanliness. Also we all agreed that he was a morally superior man than all of the Muslim young men we knew: so why this sudden change of attitude? Their response was very disturbing. They said that the name itself had something in it that made them dislike this religion. Then they asked me whether I knew why everyone disliked the Baha’is. I told them I don’t know because I don’t dislike anyone. But since they dislike the Baha’is perhaps they should explain their reasons. They did not know why. This man was the first Baha’i they had come to know this close, and in fact he was an exemplar man. So I wanted to know the reason for their dislike. There was no particular reason, they said. It’s just they know that Baha’is are bad.
I am happy that I did not continue my friendship with these two bigots, yet from them I learned how prejudice is formed and operates.
Later I realized that these prejudices and hatreds that Muslims harbor in their hearts against almost all non-Muslims is not the result of any misinterpretation of the teachings of the Quran but is because this book teaches hate and encourages prejudice. There are many verses in the Quran that call the believers to hate the non-believers, fight them, call them najis, subdue and humiliate them chop their heads and limbs, crucify them and kill them wherever they find them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HudIzSOVaE
WHERE ARE YOU,WESTERN IDIOTS?
v tej temi ne bom odgovarjal,samo kopiral bom 
če bo sploh kdo upu pisnt..
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Hja,prjatu,če bi ti jaz povedu kako je v Rusiji ,bi bil ti na drugi strani,bi bili naš sovražnik,te sedaj ne bi bilo...
Ivan Maček - Matija |
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matt
Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 23:51
Prispevkov: 2651
Kraj: Lodainn an Iar
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 03:23 Naslov sporočila: |
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your point being?
razen jani's private jihad - or how to wank off on the blasted corps of the infidels ...
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Ta tekst namerno ne obstaja. |
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osat
Pridružen/-a: 04.11. 2006, 18:23
Prispevkov: 2108
Kraj: Na toplem
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 03:26 Naslov sporočila: |
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Simpl es det:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk30a0qsVIk
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"History is fables agreed upon." - Francois Voltaire, French philosopher and author, 1694--1778
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Our capitalist civilization knows the price of everything and the value of nothing! .... avtor anonimen |
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mala malca
Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 04:56
Prispevkov: 17767
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 05:05 Naslov sporočila: private jihad! |
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| matt je napisal/a: |
your point being?
razen jani's private jihad - or how to wank off on the blasted corps of the infidels ... |
You Were Right All Along
2007/02/07
DeeAnna
Ok, you guys were right all along, I was one of those people, Who really wanted Islam to be good.....I thought you guys at faithfreedom were just hate mongers, Although I recognized you had some valid points, Still I wanted so much for Islam to be good that I fell into its trap and tried to make it good. And yet I noticed my brothers and sisters in Islam, who praised me when I praised Islam, Just as quickly and readily demonized me when I began to question all the lies I was told about Islam...Because you see I knew nothing of Islam nothing at all, Sep 11 was my first introduction to Islam, But I was so eager to love the world right into a better world that when Muslims began telling me Osama was to Islam as the anti-Christ was to Christianity they told me Islam was all about peace and love and that Muhammad was some great prophet of peace. they praised him as though he were pro women, They basically made him into a god......But they did not tell me about his evil actions and when I began to learn of them and wanted to discuss them because I still wanted to believe Islam was good and perhaps there was some good explanation for why Muhammad would commit such evils but I quickly learned that to dare question Muhammad is to be demonized threatened abused etc. And they will see them selves as doing good and so I began to study and learn all the more, after 5 or 6 years of research and trying so hard to prove you all wrong all I have found is that you were right all along.
I put some of your challenges before my Islamic friends as though they were my own challenges. They could not dispute them. They merely attacked and demonized me instead. The very people I worked so hard to defend became my enemies. As they demonized me, more and more I began to get angry and the more I saw the truth about Islam the angrier I became. I was hurt very, very hurt, afraid, shocked, humiliated.
On one hand they tried to convert people to Islam - tried to convince people that Islam is about love and peace, but never did they show me this alleged love and peace nor did they show this love and peace to anyone else who did not glorify Islam as they did. I started off full of love and eager to embrace Islam and be embraced by it, I defended it I told the lies it had trained me to tell, I proclaimed Islam is about peace, because that’s what they told me, They told me the very word Islam was peace, But they lied. Now I know it means submission, which is the opposite of peace. I did the world no justice when I helped to glorify Islam then. And now because I know the truth the whole truth about Islam and because of all that it has done to me and because of what it has done to believers and disbelievers alike, I hate Islam. By saying this I am often demonized and they see me only with hatred. But they do not understand. I hate Islam because I love humanity. I love the believers and the disbelievers alike and I hate what Islam has done to them, For what it has done to humanity I hate Islam and never again will I defended it never will I submit, I will not bow nor will I submit!
But I thank you faithfreedom for daring to stand because you are the true heroes of the land!
Dear Dee Anna
You are lucky that you do not live in an Islamic country or you would not have had the chance to leave Islam. Millions of so called Muslims are desperate to leave this cult but they know that they can’t or they would pay it with their lives.
Wish you all the best
Ali Sina
2007/02/07
Yes my friend I assure you I do tell people about your site. In fact I talked to one of the Muhammad worshipers, (because basically that’s what Islam really boils down to) I talked to one of the Muhammad worshipers about your site and explained how accurate you seemed. I was hoping for some response such as: “Well Islam has done some wrong and I’m so sorry for that.” Instead he said, you guys were a bunch of Baptist preachers who got together and made all these sites to make Islam look bad! And he told me how educated he was and basically implied that because he is so educated and I am not, he is right and I am wrong.
I was a slave for the shackles I put on my self. But I did it out of love. I knew first hand what it is like to be a victim of discrimination, a victim of hate a victim of evil. And in my heart I could not bare that others should be as I had been, so full of pain and sorrow. Desperate to belong in a world, where I did not know my place, I struggled to conform, struggled to fit in. But there was always something different about me. I always knew all forms of abuse. I knew this abuse even as a baby. But of all these forms of abuse that which caused me the utmost suffering was the lack of love. I was starved for love starved to matter in this world. And to starve for love is a pain greater than I could bear and it was something I would not wish on my worst enemy. As I grew older I saw that it was not only me and my siblings who suffered in this world, but the world was full of suffering people. People starved for love and a place to belong. And so I decided I would make it my goal to love the world right into a better place for us all. I was doing that play it forward thing before there was ever a movie about it.
I grew up raised by many different people, from Atheist to strict religious. My step grandfather was atheist, my grandmother a catholic, and both were very abusive to me. Religion was a constant in my life. And as I passed from one family to another and to the next, abuse and hellfire and brimstone teachings were a constant. But I rebelled against the notion that a good loving god could be so psychotic and I raised my voice and said so. I said so not because I wanted to hurt the believers but because I wanted to love the disbeliever as well as the believers. For that I was demonized and called satan at times etc. Still I loved the believers, so I tried to please them, but I also loved the disbelievers. This left me torn in the middle somehow. Out of love I walked away from it all.
When I learned how many religions there are I decided perhaps my fate, my destiny in my quest for a better world was to find the golden sparks within each faith and use them to help humanity love one another as equals not with all the differences and divisions, I was so happy at last I had found my path.
Sept 11 happened to us all and my first response when I found out Osama was a Muslim and there was a religion called Islam, was love and mercy. I wanted to ensure that not all of Islam was persecuted for what Osama had done. So I defended Islam and Muslims. I still didn’t know squat about it though. Some Muslims told me that Islam was about peace and love and Muhammad was a great prophet of peace who love and liberated women. They made him sound Christ like, and they made Islam sound like some small persecuted religion of peace and non violence. And all I felt was an innocent love and acceptance, I sought to embrace Islam with love, to love and be loved and work together for a better world for all people. But from the start I was lied to. They depicted Muslims as the poor peaceful yet persecuted minority. The truth is that Islam is the persecutor of minorities. Still at first, though I had questions about the faith and the founder of the faith, all I wanted was to love and be loved. After all, I had had some very bad experiences in my own Christian background. I had been demonized so many times as a child I began to be truly afraid the devil was in me. After all I was accused so many times, because I would not bow, nor would I submit to anything as barbaric as eternal hell for humanity.
Anyway, after I embraced Islam with love I discovered too late that Islam was even worse and its eternal hell even more barbaric. A submitted slave who dares to question the faith is as bad as a disbeliever. Once again I was demonized. Demonized because I dared to love, dared to stand for the disbelievers as equal to the believers. Now I stand again and walk away. Now yet again I am cast down and again demonized and satanized.
But I have a message and that message is: I do not walk away from Islam because I hate the believers. Oh no! I walk away because, I love the disbelievers. And I am thoroughly ashamed of how we the believers have treated them. And yet still I love you as the believers but I love the disbelievers too. I did not bow for the belief that demonized the disbelievers and condemned them to eternal hellfire in my own original religion, why would I bow for such a barbaric belief in a new religion that is even crueler to the disbeliever? You can make me the great Satan in your minds, you can demonize me if you must, but I walk away, not because I hate but because I LOVE! I love the disbeliever as much as I love the believers and never will I submit to any eternal evil cast upon them. You may vilify me and satanize me if you have to, but someday, someday you will have to ask your selves why your devil loves more than your god. I am and have been a slave, but now I am setting my self free.
P.S. I love you all! I think you are the great heroes of the world and the most beautiful people and I am ever so grateful that you stood. I love all of you thank you faithfreedom!
Dear Dee Anna
I believe you have found the essence of religion within yourself. Religion is a way to find God in our hearts and to love our fellow being. You have done both on your own. You reached your destination, flying. You took no roads. All roads were proven to be torturous and thorny for you. Yes, love is the essence of religion. This is the eternal principle of all good philosophies and faiths. Once you reach the point that you love all mankind and become blind to the differences that separate us, you have reached the pinnacle of humanness. This is a lofty station, at the reach of all of us and yet it is the path less trodden.
Many people who defend Islam do it out of the goodness in their hearts. They have the best of intentions. Alas the road to hell is paved with good intentions. In Persian we say, kindness to the wolf is cruelty to the sheep. Unfortunately the world is reluctant to see Muslims as wolves. Muslims are wolves for what they believe and what they practice. It is their demonic cult that converts them into deceitful and hatemongering murderers. Otherwise we are all born innocent and pure. We become who we are through indoctrination. You were lied to, like all of us. Every Muslim is lied to and he then takes upon himself to perpetuate that lie, to keep lying to himself and to others. But we are free. No amount of indoctrination can overcome our free will. Once we come to age and can make choices on our own then the excuse that I was indoctrinated is not a valid excuse anymore. We become responsible for our actions, for what we believe and what we do. Muslims are not innocent. They are guilty for what they believe and for what they do. There is no excuse for hating our fellow being. Foolishness is not an excuse.
Ali Sina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3T_xeoGES8
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Hja,prjatu,če bi ti jaz povedu kako je v Rusiji ,bi bil ti na drugi strani,bi bili naš sovražnik,te sedaj ne bi bilo...
Ivan Maček - Matija |
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| Nazaj na vrh |
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mala malca
Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 04:56
Prispevkov: 17767
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 05:09 Naslov sporočila: there no exuse! |
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My sweet Grandmother and the concept of “Najass”
Keyvan Shirazi
2006/04/27
I am an American son of Iranian immigrants. My parents came to the United States in the 1950’s, and I was born and grew up in the Midwest. Today I consider myself simply an American, and not an Iranian-American, for I cannot respect the crude, separatist thinking of those who hyphenate their identities in this way. Though my family was originally Muslim, probably as far back as the early Middle Ages, I am not now a practicing Muslim, nor have I ever been one in the past. More to the point though, recent events in the world, and my own interpretation of their significance, have lately compelled me to conclude that there is virtually no chance I would ever become a Muslim in the future. The reason I feel this way is because I have come to believe that to devote oneself to Islam is to risk seriously the loss of one’s humanity and the right to be called a civilized human being.
Like many people around the world since 9/11, I too have wondered what it is that inspires Muslims to become such utterly bloodthirsty terrorists. At first, I would insist that the problem lay with Islamic extremists, the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia in particular. When people challenged me on this, arguing that the problem was the moral backwardness inherent in Islam itself, I would dismiss their accusations on the grounds that I personally knew practicing Muslims who were as peaceful and inoffensive as any people on the planet. That latter bit I still know to be true, but the former part of my reasoning – namely, that the decency of some Muslims exonerated Islam itself – is not an opinion that I have the energy or the inclination to defend anymore. I just don’t feel in my heart that this statement is true. Every ounce of my common sense demands that I stop kidding myself.
And yet it was not the relentless string of terrorist acts committed by Muslims in Iraq and almost everyplace else that caused me to abandon the defense of Islam. It was something that happened over 30 years ago, something I never really thought much about until quite recently when I realized that the significance of that event was that it contained at least one of the clues to explaining why global terrorism is an almost exclusively Islamic phenomenon.
In 1974, when I was in my late teens I flew to Iran to spend a few weeks with my extended family members. Many of these people have since fled the country to live in Europe and North America. Back in the 1970’s, however, when the Shah was in power, Iran was a nation whose authoritarian government was sufficiently hands-off in the way it treated the population that if you did not overtly antagonize the ruler you could lead a reasonably normal, prosperous life. Iran was no picnic under the Shah, but nothing like the nightmare it has become under the turban-headed Islamofascists of today. There were many places much worse than Iran back then. There are not many such places now.
That same year my sister came to visit Iran with her first husband, a blond-haired, blue-eyed Scandinavian farm boy from northern Iowa. He was a bit of a hippy, though not egregiously so, and he exhibited a great deal of friendly curiosity to learn about exotic places like Iran, Turkey and Afghanistan, all of which the two of them explored that year in an old Volkswagen van.
Most of the time there we spent with my maternal relatives, but for a couple of days we went to visit my father’s older brother at his flat in Tehran. My uncle’s flat was somewhat crowded, for he shared it with his wife and a number of other relatives, including my grandmother. My grandmother has been dead since 1992, but I think of her often and truly miss her sweet face and high pitched, chirpy voice. She was a devout Muslim who, though illiterate in Farsi, had managed to teach herself to read the Koran in the original Arabic. To this day she remains probably the closest thing to a saintly person I have ever known. But as kind and gentle as she was to the end of her life, she was not quite a saint, and I believe it was her Islamic faith that kept her from reaching that plateau.
My grandmother was delighted to see me when I rang my uncle’s door bell. My sister and my brother-in-law were with me on that occasion, and there was a lot of good cheer to go around. As my grandmother became increasingly acquainted with my brother-in-law she clearly liked him. I remember that unmistakably. He was definitely welcome in her home. And yet, she would not physically touch him, either to embrace him as a family member, or even to shake his hand. The reason for this was simple: He was not a Muslim, therefore, he was najass. The word means “dirty” – not dirty in the sense of physically grimy – but rather spiritually tainted, filthy in a deeper sense, something akin to an “Untouchable” in Hindu society. People who submit to the teachings of Islam are taught that non-Muslims can no more be touched than pork or alcohol. My grandmother truly bore him no ill will, but because she had submitted to Islam, she felt she had to accept its dictates with respect to the treatment of non-Muslims. It was less an act of hostility to my brother-in-law than an act of surrender to her religion. This is what strikes me so forcefully today. As kindly and gentle a person as she was, her kindness had nothing to do with her being Muslim, as I had previously thought. She was kind and decent in spite of being a Muslim, for the only thing she learned from Islam was an arrogant disdain for different faiths and those who practice them.
You might be asking how she managed this self-evident contradiction. How could she have liked him and welcomed him into her home if Islam had taught her that non-Muslims are dirty? The answer, in my view, is because Muslims who maintain their humanity and decency do so by compromising with their faith, by deviating from it in some way. As the Koranic scriptures and the Hadiths reveal, being a strict and pure Muslim requires that a person fill his heart with so much concentrated hatred for the “unbeliever” that most people simply don’t have the strength to keep up the daily routine of being an intolerant barbarian. So they quietly tell themselves that they will be good Muslims, but only up to a point. They will honor and revere the Koran, but they will not necessarily take it too literally. Much of what the Koran tells them to do they will silently ignore.
My late grandmother maintained her kind-hearted, cheerful disposition because there was something in her soul besides Islam, something that – call it what you will - fought with Islam and held it at bay, enabling her to rise far above the level of the sort of fascist thug that Islamic doctrine is tailored to produce. She submitted to Islam, but for all her outwardly evident devotion, she submitted to it only partly.
Now contrast my grandmother with somebody like Umm Nidal, a member of the Hamas-led parliament in Gaza. Even by the Palestinians’ abysmal moral standards this woman is a hideous witch, the Shelob to Hamas’ orcs, who glories in the fact that her sons blew themselves to bits simply for the pleasure and “honor” of killing some Jews. Umm Nidal is also a devout Muslim, and yet not only is she no saint, she barely qualifies as a human being at all for she is so indescribably vile that even her rapist would occupy a higher moral plane than she does – assuming any man would be stupid enough to touch such a loathsome creature.
What makes Umm Nidal different from my grandmother? I think the difference is that if you could peer into the Palestinian witch’s soul you would find nothing there but Islam, a total submission to this ugly ideology.
I can no longer argue that the problem in the world stems merely from Islamic extremists like the Wahhabis. Yes, they are arguably the worst of the lot, the scum-de-la-scum, so to speak, of the Islamic world. But the Wahhabis are not the root of the problem; Islam itself is. And that is why I could never attempt to be any kind of Muslim at all, much less a “good” Muslim. The thought of sinking that low is simply too shameful. And that my sweet grandmother managed to avoid the fate of the Palestinian witch is a miracle for which I am genuinely grateful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzcIe_W3seo
_________________
Hja,prjatu,če bi ti jaz povedu kako je v Rusiji ,bi bil ti na drugi strani,bi bili naš sovražnik,te sedaj ne bi bilo...
Ivan Maček - Matija |
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| Nazaj na vrh |
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matt
Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 23:51
Prispevkov: 2651
Kraj: Lodainn an Iar
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 09:20 Naslov sporočila: |
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me zanima, ce si opazu en detajl v citiranih storijah ...
in namen postov? moralno opravicevanje scvretja neverniskih riti?
mislm normalni ga mecejo na picke ...
_________________
Ta tekst namerno ne obstaja. |
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Dorje
Pridružen/-a: 14.11. 2006, 10:13
Prispevkov: 4904
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 10:02 Naslov sporočila: Re: Pa berite zelo počasi... |
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| mala malca je napisal/a: |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqv3Ii9BbDQ
LONG LIVE ROCK AND ROLL!"!!
I was born to a moderate religious family. From my mother’s side I have few relatives who are Ayatollahs. Although my grandfather was a skeptic, in the family were I grew religion has been the pivot around which our lives revolved. My parents were not much fond of the Mullahs. In fact we did not have much to do with our more fundamentalist relatives. We liked to think of ourselves as believing in the “real Islam” not the one taught and practiced by the Mullahs.
I recall discussing religion with the husband of one of my aunts when I was about 15 years old. He was a fanatical Muslim who was much concerned about the fiqh. (Islamic jurisprudence). It determines the way Muslims should pray, fast, run their public and private lives, do business, clean themselves, use the toilet and even copulate. I argued that this has nothing to do with the real Islam, that it is a fabrication of the Mullahs and that excessive attention to fiqh diminishes the impact and the importance of the pure message of Islam that is a religion to unite man with his creator. This view is mostly inspired by Sufism. Many Iranians, thanks to the Rumi's poems, are to a great degree Sufis in their outlook
In my early youth I noticed discriminations and cruelties against the members of religious minorities in Iran. This was more noticeable in provincial towns where the level of education was low and the mullahs had a better grip over the gullible people. Due to my father’s work we spent few years in small towns out of the capital. I recall our teacher made a schedule to take the class for swimming. We were excited and looked forward to it. In our class there were a couple of kids who were Baha'is and Jews. The teacher did not let them accompany us. He said that they are not allowed to swim in the same pool that Muslims swim. I cannot forget the disappointment of these kids who left the school with tears in their eyes, subdued and heartbroken. At that age, may be nine or ten, I could not make sense of this injustice. I thought it was the kid’s fault for not being Muslims, but still I was sad.
I believe that I was lucky for having open-minded parents who encouraged me to think critically. They tried to instill in me the love of God and his messenger yet upheld humanistic values like equality of rights between man and woman and love for all humankind. In a sense, this is how most modern Iranian families were. In fact the majority of Muslims who have some education believe that Islam is a humanistic religion that respects human rights, that elevates the status of women and protects their rights. Most Muslims believe that Islam means peace.
I spent my early youth in this sweet dream. Advocating the “real Islam” as I thought it should be and criticizing the mullahs and their deviations from the real teachings of Islam. I idealized an Islam that conformed to my own humanistic values. Of course my imaginary Islam was a beautiful religion. It was a religion of equality and of peace. It was a religion that encouraged its followers to go after knowledge and be inquisitive. It was a religion that was in harmony with science and reason. In fact, I thought that science got its inspiration from this religion. The Islam that I believed, was a religion that sparkled the modern science, which eventually bore its fruits in the West and made the modern discoveries and inventions possible. Islam, as I used to believe, was the real cause of the modern civilization. The reason Muslims were living is such a miserable state of ignorance was all the fault of the self-centered Mullahs and the religious leaders who for their own personal gain had misinterpreted the real teachings of Islam, I thought.
Muslims, honestly believe that the great Western civilization has its roots in Islam. They recall great Middle Eastern scientific minds whose contributions to the science have been crucial in the birth of Modern science.
Omar Khayyam was a great mathematician who calculated the length of the year with a precision of .74% of a second. Zakaria Razi can very well be regarded as one of the first founders of empirical science who based his knowledge on research and experimentation. Avicenna's (Bu Ali Sina) monumental encyclopedia of medicine was taught in European universities for centuries. There are so many more great luminaries who have “Islamic names” who have been the pioneers of modern science when Europe was languishing in the medieval Dark Ages. Like all Muslims I used to believe that all these great men were Muslims, that they had been inspired by the wealth of hidden knowledge that is in the Quran and that if the today's Muslims could regain the original purity of Islam, the long lost glorious days of Islam will return and the Muslims will lead the advancement of the World civilization once again.
Yet the reality was harsher than dream. Iran was a Muslim country but it was also a corrupt country. The chance of getting to university was slim. Only one in ten of the applicants could get to the university and often they were forced to choose subjects that they did not want to study because they could not get enough points for the subjects of their choice. The students with right connections often got the seats.
The Regime of the Shah was a repressive regime and freedoms of thoughts were suppressed. People feared each other as each person could be an informer or a secret agent of the dreaded SAVAK (Shah's secret police). I was always outspoken and hardly had any tact to keep my mouth shut when my life was in danger. The standard of education in Iran was not ideal. Universities were under-funded; as Shah preferred building a powerful military might and become the gendarme of the Middle East than build the infrastructure of the country and invest in people’s education. All these were factors that my father thought I would be better off if I leave Iran and continue my education elsewhere.
We considered America and Europe but my father, acting upon the counsel of a few of his religious friends thought another Islamic country would be better for a 16 year old boy. We were told that the West is too lax in morality, that people are pervert, that the beaches are full of nudes, that they drink and have licentious lifestyles and all that could represent a danger to a young man. So I was sent to Pakistan instead. Pakistan being a religious country was safe. People were religious and therefore moral. A friend of the family told us that Pakistan is just like England, except that it is cheaper.
This, of course, proved to be untrue. I found Pakistanis were as immoral and corrupt as Iranians. Yes they were very religious. Yes they did not eat pork and I saw no one consuming alcohol in public, but I noticed they had dirty minds, they lied, they were hypocrites, and they were cruel to the women and above all filled with hatred of the Indians. I did not find them better than Iranians in any ways. They were religious but not moral or ethical.
In college I did not take Urdu and instead I took Pakistani Culture to complete my A level FSc (Fellow of Science). I learned the reason for Pakistan's partition from India and for the first time heard about Muhammad Ali Jinah, the man Pakistanis called Qaid-e A’zam, the great leader. He was presented as an intelligent man, the Father of the Nation, while Gandhi was spoken of in a derogatory way. Even then, I could not but to side with Gandhi and condemn Jinnah as an arrogant and ambitious man who was the culprit for breaking up a country and causing millions of deaths. You can say I always had a mind of my own and was a maverick in my thinking. No matter what I was taught, I always came to my own conclusion and did not believed what I was told.
I did not see the difference of religion enough reason to break up a country. The very word Pakistan seemed to be an insult to the Indians. They called themselves pak (clean) to distinguish themselves from the Indians who were najis (unclean). Ironically I never saw a people dirtier than the Pakistanis both physically and mentally. It was disappointing to see another Islamic nation in such an intellectual and moral bankruptcy. In my discussions with my friends I failed to convince anyone of the “real Islam”. I condemned their bigotry and fanaticism while they disapproved of me for my un-Islamic views.
I told that to my father and decided to go to Italy for my university studies. In Italy people drank wine and ate pork. But I found they were more hospitable, friendlier and less hypocrite than Muslims. I noticed people were willing to help without expecting something in return. I met an elderly couple that was very hospitable to me. They called me on Sundays to have lunch with them and not stay home alone. They did not want anything from me. They just wanted to have someone to give their love. I was almost a grandson to them. Only those who have come to a new country, who do not know anyone and cannot speak even the language can appreciate how much the help and hospitality of the locals is worth.
Their house was sparklingly clean and the floor was marble and always shiny. This contradicted my idea of the Westerners. Although my family was very open towards other people, Islam had taught me that the non-Muslims are najis (Q.9:2 and one should not take them as friends. I had a copy of the Quran that I still have and used to read from it often. The verses were underlined with a Farsi translation. I came across this verse:
“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya’ to one another…Q.5: 51
I had difficulty understanding the wisdom of such verse. I wondered why I should not befriend with this wonderful elderly couple that had no ulterior motives in showing me their hospitality than just making me feel at home. I thought that they were “real Muslims” and I tried to raise the subject of religion hoping they will see the truth of Islam and embrace it. But they were not interested and politely changed the subject. I was not that stupid to believe that all non-believers will go to hell at anytime in my life. I suppose I read this in the Quran before but never wanted to think about it. I simply brushed it off or wanted to close my eyes to it. Of course, I knew that God would be pleased if someone recognized his messenger but never thought he would actually be that cruel to burn someone in Hell for eternity, even if that person is the author of all the good deeds just because he was not a Muslim. I read the following warning:
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). Q 3:85,
Yet I paid little heed and tried to convince myself that the meaning is something else than what it appears to be. At that moment this was not a subject that I was ready to handle. So I did not think about it.
I hanged around with my Muslim friends and noticed that most of them lived a very immoral life of double standards. Most of them found girlfriends and slept with them. That was very un-Islamic, or so I thought at that time. What bothered me most was the fact that they did not value these girls as real human beings that deserved respect. These girls were not Muslim girls and therefore were used just for sex. This attitude was not general. Those who made less show of religiosity were more respectful and sincere towards their western girlfriends and some even loved them and wanted to marry them, but paradoxically those who were more religious were less faithful towards their girlfriends. I had such high esteem of religion in my mind that it was hard for me to relate the immoral and callous behavior of the Muslims to what is being taught in Islam. I always thought that the true Islam is what is right. If something is immoral, unethical, dishonest or cruel, it cannot be Islam.
Years later I realized that the truth is completely the reverse. I found many verses that were disturbing and made me revise my whole opinion of Islam.
The funny thing was that the same very people who lived, according to me, unethically and immorally were the ones who called themselves Muslims, said their prayers, fasted and were the first to defend Islam angrily if anyone raised a question about it. They where the ones who would lose their temper and start a fight if someone dared to say a word against Islam.
Once I met a young Iranian man at the University restaurant. I sat next to him and became his friend. Later I introduced him to two other Muslim friends of mine. We were all of the same age but he was an erudite young man full of virtues and wisdom. I was captivated by his charm and high moral values, and so my other two friends. We used to wait for him and sit next to him during the lunch hours as we always learned something from him. We used to eat a lot of spaghetti and risotto and were craving for a good Persian ghorme sabzi and chelow. Our friend said that his mother had sent him some dried vegetables and invited us to go to his house the next Sunday for lunch. We found his two-room apartment very clean, unlike the houses of other guys. He had made us the delicious ghorme sabzi that all of us ate with a lot of gusto and then we sat back chatting and sipping our tea. It was then that among his books we found some Baha’i books. When we asked about it, he said that he was a Baha’i. Of course that did not bother me at all but on the way back home my two friends said that they do not wish to continue their friendship with him anymore. I was surprised and asked why! They said that being a Baha’i makes him a najis person and had they knew that he was a Baha’i, they would not have befriended him. I was puzzled and enquired why they think he was najis if we all were complementing him on his cleanliness. Also we all agreed that he was a morally superior man than all of the Muslim young men we knew: so why this sudden change of attitude? Their response was very disturbing. They said that the name itself had something in it that made them dislike this religion. Then they asked me whether I knew why everyone disliked the Baha’is. I told them I don’t know because I don’t dislike anyone. But since they dislike the Baha’is perhaps they should explain their reasons. They did not know why. This man was the first Baha’i they had come to know this close, and in fact he was an exemplar man. So I wanted to know the reason for their dislike. There was no particular reason, they said. It’s just they know that Baha’is are bad.
I am happy that I did not continue my friendship with these two bigots, yet from them I learned how prejudice is formed and operates.
Later I realized that these prejudices and hatreds that Muslims harbor in their hearts against almost all non-Muslims is not the result of any misinterpretation of the teachings of the Quran but is because this book teaches hate and encourages prejudice. There are many verses in the Quran that call the believers to hate the non-believers, fight them, call them najis, subdue and humiliate them chop their heads and limbs, crucify them and kill them wherever they find them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HudIzSOVaE
WHERE ARE YOU,WESTERN IDIOTS?
v tej temi ne bom odgovarjal,samo kopiral bom
če bo sploh kdo upu pisnt.. |
Hvala Jani, za tale tekst!
Užival sem ob tem branju. Res se dogaja vse skupaj še pod šahom Rezo Pahlavijem in je danes z diktaturo islamskega klera, prežetost iranske družbe z fundamentalističnim islamom še večje kot je bilo pod šahom.
Po drugi strani pa kaže na to, da je med iransko inteligenco seme, ki pošteno in kritično obravnava konzervativni verski pristop. In teh tudi v današnjem Iranu ni malo. Pravzaprav se tujcu tam dogaja, da v glavnem vzpostavi stik prav s takimi ljudmi. Zato se je treba zavedati, da to vseeno ni prevladujoče mišljenje, kajti bariere so velike - prva je jezik, druga pa nesprejemanje "nečistih" ali pripadnikov druge vere. Vendar se poznavanje angleščine vedno splete tudi s toleranco do "nevernikov".
Da pa je odpor do nevernikov velik, lahko sklepam, da mi še nikoli do sedaj ni uspelo vzpostaviti kontakta z kakšnim iranskim mulo. Že njihov sovražni pogled je prva ovira za kontakt, tudi če bi slučajno znali kakšen tuj jezik. Če to sovražnost prenašajo na svoje vernike, je tega zelo veliko. Ni pa spet takšno, da bi kot tujec imel zaradi tega težave z navadnimi ljudmi. Ko pa naletiš na kakšnega državnega birokrata, pa ti znajo zagreniti življenje, morda prav zanalašč, ker si tujec in za oblast potencionalni vohun. Morda je pa to pač delo birokratov, da otežujejo ljudem življenje?
Zanimiv je opis Pakistana in Pakistancev iz perspektive Iranca. Res je tako. Iran je za zahodnjaka še najmanjši kulturni šok. Pravi pride, ko prestopi v Mirjaveh na pakistansko stran! Čeprav je birokracija na iranski strani meje vsaj 10X hujša kot na pakistanski in uradno v Pakistanu pokrivanje žensk ni obvezno, vendar kar se tiče verskega fundamentalizma, ga je med navadnimi ljudmi veliko več kot v Iranu.
Zdaj pa k finalnemu vprašanju:
PO KAKŠNI LOGIKI IMA PAKISTAN PRAVICO IMETI NUKLEARNO OROŽJE - IRAN PA NE???? |
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Dorje
Pridružen/-a: 14.11. 2006, 10:13
Prispevkov: 4904
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 10:18 Naslov sporočila: JANI UPAM, DA TO KAR NALIMAŠ TUDI PREBEREŠ? |
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| In če, ali si morda zaznal v vseh teh postih, kakšno rdečo nit, ki se tiče vseh ver in vseh vernikov enako??? |
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mala malca
Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 04:56
Prispevkov: 17767
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 13:24 Naslov sporočila: o detaljih in neverniških ritih.. |
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| matt je napisal/a: |
me zanima, ce si opazu en detajl v citiranih storijah ...
in namen postov? moralno opravicevanje scvretja neverniskih riti?
mislm normalni ga mecejo na picke ... |
Does your criticism apply to Islam or to other religions as well?
I don't believe in any religion. The very concept of God sending messengers to save us or to be known and worshipped is absurd.
However, I am not against religions. I believe in freedom of thought and diversity. Diversity means having the luxury to think differently.
I respect all religions that preach love and unity and are tolerant of other beliefs even though I may not agree with their theological philosophy.
I fight against Islam, not because it is a religion or because it is false but because it preaches hate and divides mankind into "brothers" and "enemies". Islam is fascism that tends to unite only the believers using the hatred of the non-believers as the leverage
_________________
Hja,prjatu,če bi ti jaz povedu kako je v Rusiji ,bi bil ti na drugi strani,bi bili naš sovražnik,te sedaj ne bi bilo...
Ivan Maček - Matija |
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| Nazaj na vrh |
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mala malca
Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 04:56
Prispevkov: 17767
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 13:26 Naslov sporočila: slabo znanje angleščine ali kaj drugega? |
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| Dorje je napisal/a: |
| mala malca je napisal/a: |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqv3Ii9BbDQ
LONG LIVE ROCK AND ROLL!"!!
I was born to a moderate religious family. From my mother’s side I have few relatives who are Ayatollahs. Although my grandfather was a skeptic, in the family were I grew religion has been the pivot around which our lives revolved. My parents were not much fond of the Mullahs. In fact we did not have much to do with our more fundamentalist relatives. We liked to think of ourselves as believing in the “real Islam” not the one taught and practiced by the Mullahs.
I recall discussing religion with the husband of one of my aunts when I was about 15 years old. He was a fanatical Muslim who was much concerned about the fiqh. (Islamic jurisprudence). It determines the way Muslims should pray, fast, run their public and private lives, do business, clean themselves, use the toilet and even copulate. I argued that this has nothing to do with the real Islam, that it is a fabrication of the Mullahs and that excessive attention to fiqh diminishes the impact and the importance of the pure message of Islam that is a religion to unite man with his creator. This view is mostly inspired by Sufism. Many Iranians, thanks to the Rumi's poems, are to a great degree Sufis in their outlook
In my early youth I noticed discriminations and cruelties against the members of religious minorities in Iran. This was more noticeable in provincial towns where the level of education was low and the mullahs had a better grip over the gullible people. Due to my father’s work we spent few years in small towns out of the capital. I recall our teacher made a schedule to take the class for swimming. We were excited and looked forward to it. In our class there were a couple of kids who were Baha'is and Jews. The teacher did not let them accompany us. He said that they are not allowed to swim in the same pool that Muslims swim. I cannot forget the disappointment of these kids who left the school with tears in their eyes, subdued and heartbroken. At that age, may be nine or ten, I could not make sense of this injustice. I thought it was the kid’s fault for not being Muslims, but still I was sad.
I believe that I was lucky for having open-minded parents who encouraged me to think critically. They tried to instill in me the love of God and his messenger yet upheld humanistic values like equality of rights between man and woman and love for all humankind. In a sense, this is how most modern Iranian families were. In fact the majority of Muslims who have some education believe that Islam is a humanistic religion that respects human rights, that elevates the status of women and protects their rights. Most Muslims believe that Islam means peace.
I spent my early youth in this sweet dream. Advocating the “real Islam” as I thought it should be and criticizing the mullahs and their deviations from the real teachings of Islam. I idealized an Islam that conformed to my own humanistic values. Of course my imaginary Islam was a beautiful religion. It was a religion of equality and of peace. It was a religion that encouraged its followers to go after knowledge and be inquisitive. It was a religion that was in harmony with science and reason. In fact, I thought that science got its inspiration from this religion. The Islam that I believed, was a religion that sparkled the modern science, which eventually bore its fruits in the West and made the modern discoveries and inventions possible. Islam, as I used to believe, was the real cause of the modern civilization. The reason Muslims were living is such a miserable state of ignorance was all the fault of the self-centered Mullahs and the religious leaders who for their own personal gain had misinterpreted the real teachings of Islam, I thought.
Muslims, honestly believe that the great Western civilization has its roots in Islam. They recall great Middle Eastern scientific minds whose contributions to the science have been crucial in the birth of Modern science.
Omar Khayyam was a great mathematician who calculated the length of the year with a precision of .74% of a second. Zakaria Razi can very well be regarded as one of the first founders of empirical science who based his knowledge on research and experimentation. Avicenna's (Bu Ali Sina) monumental encyclopedia of medicine was taught in European universities for centuries. There are so many more great luminaries who have “Islamic names” who have been the pioneers of modern science when Europe was languishing in the medieval Dark Ages. Like all Muslims I used to believe that all these great men were Muslims, that they had been inspired by the wealth of hidden knowledge that is in the Quran and that if the today's Muslims could regain the original purity of Islam, the long lost glorious days of Islam will return and the Muslims will lead the advancement of the World civilization once again.
Yet the reality was harsher than dream. Iran was a Muslim country but it was also a corrupt country. The chance of getting to university was slim. Only one in ten of the applicants could get to the university and often they were forced to choose subjects that they did not want to study because they could not get enough points for the subjects of their choice. The students with right connections often got the seats.
The Regime of the Shah was a repressive regime and freedoms of thoughts were suppressed. People feared each other as each person could be an informer or a secret agent of the dreaded SAVAK (Shah's secret police). I was always outspoken and hardly had any tact to keep my mouth shut when my life was in danger. The standard of education in Iran was not ideal. Universities were under-funded; as Shah preferred building a powerful military might and become the gendarme of the Middle East than build the infrastructure of the country and invest in people’s education. All these were factors that my father thought I would be better off if I leave Iran and continue my education elsewhere.
We considered America and Europe but my father, acting upon the counsel of a few of his religious friends thought another Islamic country would be better for a 16 year old boy. We were told that the West is too lax in morality, that people are pervert, that the beaches are full of nudes, that they drink and have licentious lifestyles and all that could represent a danger to a young man. So I was sent to Pakistan instead. Pakistan being a religious country was safe. People were religious and therefore moral. A friend of the family told us that Pakistan is just like England, except that it is cheaper.
This, of course, proved to be untrue. I found Pakistanis were as immoral and corrupt as Iranians. Yes they were very religious. Yes they did not eat pork and I saw no one consuming alcohol in public, but I noticed they had dirty minds, they lied, they were hypocrites, and they were cruel to the women and above all filled with hatred of the Indians. I did not find them better than Iranians in any ways. They were religious but not moral or ethical.
In college I did not take Urdu and instead I took Pakistani Culture to complete my A level FSc (Fellow of Science). I learned the reason for Pakistan's partition from India and for the first time heard about Muhammad Ali Jinah, the man Pakistanis called Qaid-e A’zam, the great leader. He was presented as an intelligent man, the Father of the Nation, while Gandhi was spoken of in a derogatory way. Even then, I could not but to side with Gandhi and condemn Jinnah as an arrogant and ambitious man who was the culprit for breaking up a country and causing millions of deaths. You can say I always had a mind of my own and was a maverick in my thinking. No matter what I was taught, I always came to my own conclusion and did not believed what I was told.
I did not see the difference of religion enough reason to break up a country. The very word Pakistan seemed to be an insult to the Indians. They called themselves pak (clean) to distinguish themselves from the Indians who were najis (unclean). Ironically I never saw a people dirtier than the Pakistanis both physically and mentally. It was disappointing to see another Islamic nation in such an intellectual and moral bankruptcy. In my discussions with my friends I failed to convince anyone of the “real Islam”. I condemned their bigotry and fanaticism while they disapproved of me for my un-Islamic views.
I told that to my father and decided to go to Italy for my university studies. In Italy people drank wine and ate pork. But I found they were more hospitable, friendlier and less hypocrite than Muslims. I noticed people were willing to help without expecting something in return. I met an elderly couple that was very hospitable to me. They called me on Sundays to have lunch with them and not stay home alone. They did not want anything from me. They just wanted to have someone to give their love. I was almost a grandson to them. Only those who have come to a new country, who do not know anyone and cannot speak even the language can appreciate how much the help and hospitality of the locals is worth.
Their house was sparklingly clean and the floor was marble and always shiny. This contradicted my idea of the Westerners. Although my family was very open towards other people, Islam had taught me that the non-Muslims are najis (Q.9:2 and one should not take them as friends. I had a copy of the Quran that I still have and used to read from it often. The verses were underlined with a Farsi translation. I came across this verse:
“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya’ to one another…Q.5: 51
I had difficulty understanding the wisdom of such verse. I wondered why I should not befriend with this wonderful elderly couple that had no ulterior motives in showing me their hospitality than just making me feel at home. I thought that they were “real Muslims” and I tried to raise the subject of religion hoping they will see the truth of Islam and embrace it. But they were not interested and politely changed the subject. I was not that stupid to believe that all non-believers will go to hell at anytime in my life. I suppose I read this in the Quran before but never wanted to think about it. I simply brushed it off or wanted to close my eyes to it. Of course, I knew that God would be pleased if someone recognized his messenger but never thought he would actually be that cruel to burn someone in Hell for eternity, even if that person is the author of all the good deeds just because he was not a Muslim. I read the following warning:
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). Q 3:85,
Yet I paid little heed and tried to convince myself that the meaning is something else than what it appears to be. At that moment this was not a subject that I was ready to handle. So I did not think about it.
I hanged around with my Muslim friends and noticed that most of them lived a very immoral life of double standards. Most of them found girlfriends and slept with them. That was very un-Islamic, or so I thought at that time. What bothered me most was the fact that they did not value these girls as real human beings that deserved respect. These girls were not Muslim girls and therefore were used just for sex. This attitude was not general. Those who made less show of religiosity were more respectful and sincere towards their western girlfriends and some even loved them and wanted to marry them, but paradoxically those who were more religious were less faithful towards their girlfriends. I had such high esteem of religion in my mind that it was hard for me to relate the immoral and callous behavior of the Muslims to what is being taught in Islam. I always thought that the true Islam is what is right. If something is immoral, unethical, dishonest or cruel, it cannot be Islam.
Years later I realized that the truth is completely the reverse. I found many verses that were disturbing and made me revise my whole opinion of Islam.
The funny thing was that the same very people who lived, according to me, unethically and immorally were the ones who called themselves Muslims, said their prayers, fasted and were the first to defend Islam angrily if anyone raised a question about it. They where the ones who would lose their temper and start a fight if someone dared to say a word against Islam.
Once I met a young Iranian man at the University restaurant. I sat next to him and became his friend. Later I introduced him to two other Muslim friends of mine. We were all of the same age but he was an erudite young man full of virtues and wisdom. I was captivated by his charm and high moral values, and so my other two friends. We used to wait for him and sit next to him during the lunch hours as we always learned something from him. We used to eat a lot of spaghetti and risotto and were craving for a good Persian ghorme sabzi and chelow. Our friend said that his mother had sent him some dried vegetables and invited us to go to his house the next Sunday for lunch. We found his two-room apartment very clean, unlike the houses of other guys. He had made us the delicious ghorme sabzi that all of us ate with a lot of gusto and then we sat back chatting and sipping our tea. It was then that among his books we found some Baha’i books. When we asked about it, he said that he was a Baha’i. Of course that did not bother me at all but on the way back home my two friends said that they do not wish to continue their friendship with him anymore. I was surprised and asked why! They said that being a Baha’i makes him a najis person and had they knew that he was a Baha’i, they would not have befriended him. I was puzzled and enquired why they think he was najis if we all were complementing him on his cleanliness. Also we all agreed that he was a morally superior man than all of the Muslim young men we knew: so why this sudden change of attitude? Their response was very disturbing. They said that the name itself had something in it that made them dislike this religion. Then they asked me whether I knew why everyone disliked the Baha’is. I told them I don’t know because I don’t dislike anyone. But since they dislike the Baha’is perhaps they should explain their reasons. They did not know why. This man was the first Baha’i they had come to know this close, and in fact he was an exemplar man. So I wanted to know the reason for their dislike. There was no particular reason, they said. It’s just they know that Baha’is are bad.
I am happy that I did not continue my friendship with these two bigots, yet from them I learned how prejudice is formed and operates.
Later I realized that these prejudices and hatreds that Muslims harbor in their hearts against almost all non-Muslims is not the result of any misinterpretation of the teachings of the Quran but is because this book teaches hate and encourages prejudice. There are many verses in the Quran that call the believers to hate the non-believers, fight them, call them najis, subdue and humiliate them chop their heads and limbs, crucify them and kill them wherever they find them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HudIzSOVaE
WHERE ARE YOU,WESTERN IDIOTS?
v tej temi ne bom odgovarjal,samo kopiral bom
če bo sploh kdo upu pisnt.. |
Hvala Jani, za tale tekst!
Užival sem ob tem branju. Res se dogaja vse skupaj še pod šahom Rezo Pahlavijem in je danes z diktaturo islamskega klera, prežetost iranske družbe z fundamentalističnim islamom še večje kot je bilo pod šahom.
Po drugi strani pa kaže na to, da je med iransko inteligenco seme, ki pošteno in kritično obravnava konzervativni verski pristop. In teh tudi v današnjem Iranu ni malo. Pravzaprav se tujcu tam dogaja, da v glavnem vzpostavi stik prav s takimi ljudmi. Zato se je treba zavedati, da to vseeno ni prevladujoče mišljenje, kajti bariere so velike - prva je jezik, druga pa nesprejemanje "nečistih" ali pripadnikov druge vere. Vendar se poznavanje angleščine vedno splete tudi s toleranco do "nevernikov".
Da pa je odpor do nevernikov velik, lahko sklepam, da mi še nikoli do sedaj ni uspelo vzpostaviti kontakta z kakšnim iranskim mulo. Že njihov sovražni pogled je prva ovira za kontakt, tudi če bi slučajno znali kakšen tuj jezik. Če to sovražnost prenašajo na svoje vernike, je tega zelo veliko. Ni pa spet takšno, da bi kot tujec imel zaradi tega težave z navadnimi ljudmi. Ko pa naletiš na kakšnega državnega birokrata, pa ti znajo zagreniti življenje, morda prav zanalašč, ker si tujec in za oblast potencionalni vohun. Morda je pa to pač delo birokratov, da otežujejo ljudem življenje?
Zanimiv je opis Pakistana in Pakistancev iz perspektive Iranca. Res je tako. Iran je za zahodnjaka še najmanjši kulturni šok. Pravi pride, ko prestopi v Mirjaveh na pakistansko stran! Čeprav je birokracija na iranski strani meje vsaj 10X hujša kot na pakistanski in uradno v Pakistanu pokrivanje žensk ni obvezno, vendar kar se tiče verskega fundamentalizma, ga je med navadnimi ljudmi veliko več kot v Iranu.
Zdaj pa k finalnemu vprašanju:
PO KAKŠNI LOGIKI IMA PAKISTAN PRAVICO IMETI NUKLEARNO OROŽJE - IRAN PA NE???? |
17- Why do you only talk about Islam? What about Christianity and Judaism that are as illogical as Islam?
The reason I focus mostly on Islam is because Christianity and Judaism are criticized already by many scholars born within Judaic and Christendoms.
Furthermore my fight is not against faith but against hate. I have no issue with religions that do not preach hate. Christianity, Judaism and other religions teach their followers to love. Islam is the only doctrine that teaches hate.
Most important of all, I have no business to criticize the religions of others, unless they become a danger to me. No one would pay attention anyway, because it is natural that the followers of different religions attack each other’s faiths. This kind of religious feuding has been going on since the beginning of the history of mankind. We have to see our own errors not the errors of others. We are responsible for ourselves not for others. If we find our own mistakes and bring them to the light, it is because we love our people. But if we point out the faults of others, they dismiss it, they become hostile and intensify their fanaticism. Christianity and Judaism represent no threat to the peace and security of the world.
Islam on the other hand, is a constant menace to the world peace and to the Muslims themselves who are capable to sacrifice their own lives in order to kill the "enemies" of Islam. A Persian proverb says: “Ze har tataf koshte shavad be naf’e Islam ast”. (No matter from which side people are killed it is a victory for Islam) The level of fanaticism is far greater amongst the average Muslims, than the average Christians or Jews.
_________________
Hja,prjatu,če bi ti jaz povedu kako je v Rusiji ,bi bil ti na drugi strani,bi bili naš sovražnik,te sedaj ne bi bilo...
Ivan Maček - Matija |
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Dorje
Pridružen/-a: 14.11. 2006, 10:13
Prispevkov: 4904
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 19:30 Naslov sporočila: Re: slabo znanje angleščine ali kaj drugega? |
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| mala malca je napisal/a: |
| Dorje je napisal/a: |
| mala malca je napisal/a: |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqv3Ii9BbDQ
LONG LIVE ROCK AND ROLL!"!!
I was born to a moderate religious family. From my mother’s side I have few relatives who are Ayatollahs. Although my grandfather was a skeptic, in the family were I grew religion has been the pivot around which our lives revolved. My parents were not much fond of the Mullahs. In fact we did not have much to do with our more fundamentalist relatives. We liked to think of ourselves as believing in the “real Islam” not the one taught and practiced by the Mullahs.
I recall discussing religion with the husband of one of my aunts when I was about 15 years old. He was a fanatical Muslim who was much concerned about the fiqh. (Islamic jurisprudence). It determines the way Muslims should pray, fast, run their public and private lives, do business, clean themselves, use the toilet and even copulate. I argued that this has nothing to do with the real Islam, that it is a fabrication of the Mullahs and that excessive attention to fiqh diminishes the impact and the importance of the pure message of Islam that is a religion to unite man with his creator. This view is mostly inspired by Sufism. Many Iranians, thanks to the Rumi's poems, are to a great degree Sufis in their outlook
In my early youth I noticed discriminations and cruelties against the members of religious minorities in Iran. This was more noticeable in provincial towns where the level of education was low and the mullahs had a better grip over the gullible people. Due to my father’s work we spent few years in small towns out of the capital. I recall our teacher made a schedule to take the class for swimming. We were excited and looked forward to it. In our class there were a couple of kids who were Baha'is and Jews. The teacher did not let them accompany us. He said that they are not allowed to swim in the same pool that Muslims swim. I cannot forget the disappointment of these kids who left the school with tears in their eyes, subdued and heartbroken. At that age, may be nine or ten, I could not make sense of this injustice. I thought it was the kid’s fault for not being Muslims, but still I was sad.
I believe that I was lucky for having open-minded parents who encouraged me to think critically. They tried to instill in me the love of God and his messenger yet upheld humanistic values like equality of rights between man and woman and love for all humankind. In a sense, this is how most modern Iranian families were. In fact the majority of Muslims who have some education believe that Islam is a humanistic religion that respects human rights, that elevates the status of women and protects their rights. Most Muslims believe that Islam means peace.
I spent my early youth in this sweet dream. Advocating the “real Islam” as I thought it should be and criticizing the mullahs and their deviations from the real teachings of Islam. I idealized an Islam that conformed to my own humanistic values. Of course my imaginary Islam was a beautiful religion. It was a religion of equality and of peace. It was a religion that encouraged its followers to go after knowledge and be inquisitive. It was a religion that was in harmony with science and reason. In fact, I thought that science got its inspiration from this religion. The Islam that I believed, was a religion that sparkled the modern science, which eventually bore its fruits in the West and made the modern discoveries and inventions possible. Islam, as I used to believe, was the real cause of the modern civilization. The reason Muslims were living is such a miserable state of ignorance was all the fault of the self-centered Mullahs and the religious leaders who for their own personal gain had misinterpreted the real teachings of Islam, I thought.
Muslims, honestly believe that the great Western civilization has its roots in Islam. They recall great Middle Eastern scientific minds whose contributions to the science have been crucial in the birth of Modern science.
Omar Khayyam was a great mathematician who calculated the length of the year with a precision of .74% of a second. Zakaria Razi can very well be regarded as one of the first founders of empirical science who based his knowledge on research and experimentation. Avicenna's (Bu Ali Sina) monumental encyclopedia of medicine was taught in European universities for centuries. There are so many more great luminaries who have “Islamic names” who have been the pioneers of modern science when Europe was languishing in the medieval Dark Ages. Like all Muslims I used to believe that all these great men were Muslims, that they had been inspired by the wealth of hidden knowledge that is in the Quran and that if the today's Muslims could regain the original purity of Islam, the long lost glorious days of Islam will return and the Muslims will lead the advancement of the World civilization once again.
Yet the reality was harsher than dream. Iran was a Muslim country but it was also a corrupt country. The chance of getting to university was slim. Only one in ten of the applicants could get to the university and often they were forced to choose subjects that they did not want to study because they could not get enough points for the subjects of their choice. The students with right connections often got the seats.
The Regime of the Shah was a repressive regime and freedoms of thoughts were suppressed. People feared each other as each person could be an informer or a secret agent of the dreaded SAVAK (Shah's secret police). I was always outspoken and hardly had any tact to keep my mouth shut when my life was in danger. The standard of education in Iran was not ideal. Universities were under-funded; as Shah preferred building a powerful military might and become the gendarme of the Middle East than build the infrastructure of the country and invest in people’s education. All these were factors that my father thought I would be better off if I leave Iran and continue my education elsewhere.
We considered America and Europe but my father, acting upon the counsel of a few of his religious friends thought another Islamic country would be better for a 16 year old boy. We were told that the West is too lax in morality, that people are pervert, that the beaches are full of nudes, that they drink and have licentious lifestyles and all that could represent a danger to a young man. So I was sent to Pakistan instead. Pakistan being a religious country was safe. People were religious and therefore moral. A friend of the family told us that Pakistan is just like England, except that it is cheaper.
This, of course, proved to be untrue. I found Pakistanis were as immoral and corrupt as Iranians. Yes they were very religious. Yes they did not eat pork and I saw no one consuming alcohol in public, but I noticed they had dirty minds, they lied, they were hypocrites, and they were cruel to the women and above all filled with hatred of the Indians. I did not find them better than Iranians in any ways. They were religious but not moral or ethical.
In college I did not take Urdu and instead I took Pakistani Culture to complete my A level FSc (Fellow of Science). I learned the reason for Pakistan's partition from India and for the first time heard about Muhammad Ali Jinah, the man Pakistanis called Qaid-e A’zam, the great leader. He was presented as an intelligent man, the Father of the Nation, while Gandhi was spoken of in a derogatory way. Even then, I could not but to side with Gandhi and condemn Jinnah as an arrogant and ambitious man who was the culprit for breaking up a country and causing millions of deaths. You can say I always had a mind of my own and was a maverick in my thinking. No matter what I was taught, I always came to my own conclusion and did not believed what I was told.
I did not see the difference of religion enough reason to break up a country. The very word Pakistan seemed to be an insult to the Indians. They called themselves pak (clean) to distinguish themselves from the Indians who were najis (unclean). Ironically I never saw a people dirtier than the Pakistanis both physically and mentally. It was disappointing to see another Islamic nation in such an intellectual and moral bankruptcy. In my discussions with my friends I failed to convince anyone of the “real Islam”. I condemned their bigotry and fanaticism while they disapproved of me for my un-Islamic views.
I told that to my father and decided to go to Italy for my university studies. In Italy people drank wine and ate pork. But I found they were more hospitable, friendlier and less hypocrite than Muslims. I noticed people were willing to help without expecting something in return. I met an elderly couple that was very hospitable to me. They called me on Sundays to have lunch with them and not stay home alone. They did not want anything from me. They just wanted to have someone to give their love. I was almost a grandson to them. Only those who have come to a new country, who do not know anyone and cannot speak even the language can appreciate how much the help and hospitality of the locals is worth.
Their house was sparklingly clean and the floor was marble and always shiny. This contradicted my idea of the Westerners. Although my family was very open towards other people, Islam had taught me that the non-Muslims are najis (Q.9:2 and one should not take them as friends. I had a copy of the Quran that I still have and used to read from it often. The verses were underlined with a Farsi translation. I came across this verse:
“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya’ to one another…Q.5: 51
I had difficulty understanding the wisdom of such verse. I wondered why I should not befriend with this wonderful elderly couple that had no ulterior motives in showing me their hospitality than just making me feel at home. I thought that they were “real Muslims” and I tried to raise the subject of religion hoping they will see the truth of Islam and embrace it. But they were not interested and politely changed the subject. I was not that stupid to believe that all non-believers will go to hell at anytime in my life. I suppose I read this in the Quran before but never wanted to think about it. I simply brushed it off or wanted to close my eyes to it. Of course, I knew that God would be pleased if someone recognized his messenger but never thought he would actually be that cruel to burn someone in Hell for eternity, even if that person is the author of all the good deeds just because he was not a Muslim. I read the following warning:
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). Q 3:85,
Yet I paid little heed and tried to convince myself that the meaning is something else than what it appears to be. At that moment this was not a subject that I was ready to handle. So I did not think about it.
I hanged around with my Muslim friends and noticed that most of them lived a very immoral life of double standards. Most of them found girlfriends and slept with them. That was very un-Islamic, or so I thought at that time. What bothered me most was the fact that they did not value these girls as real human beings that deserved respect. These girls were not Muslim girls and therefore were used just for sex. This attitude was not general. Those who made less show of religiosity were more respectful and sincere towards their western girlfriends and some even loved them and wanted to marry them, but paradoxically those who were more religious were less faithful towards their girlfriends. I had such high esteem of religion in my mind that it was hard for me to relate the immoral and callous behavior of the Muslims to what is being taught in Islam. I always thought that the true Islam is what is right. If something is immoral, unethical, dishonest or cruel, it cannot be Islam.
Years later I realized that the truth is completely the reverse. I found many verses that were disturbing and made me revise my whole opinion of Islam.
The funny thing was that the same very people who lived, according to me, unethically and immorally were the ones who called themselves Muslims, said their prayers, fasted and were the first to defend Islam angrily if anyone raised a question about it. They where the ones who would lose their temper and start a fight if someone dared to say a word against Islam.
Once I met a young Iranian man at the University restaurant. I sat next to him and became his friend. Later I introduced him to two other Muslim friends of mine. We were all of the same age but he was an erudite young man full of virtues and wisdom. I was captivated by his charm and high moral values, and so my other two friends. We used to wait for him and sit next to him during the lunch hours as we always learned something from him. We used to eat a lot of spaghetti and risotto and were craving for a good Persian ghorme sabzi and chelow. Our friend said that his mother had sent him some dried vegetables and invited us to go to his house the next Sunday for lunch. We found his two-room apartment very clean, unlike the houses of other guys. He had made us the delicious ghorme sabzi that all of us ate with a lot of gusto and then we sat back chatting and sipping our tea. It was then that among his books we found some Baha’i books. When we asked about it, he said that he was a Baha’i. Of course that did not bother me at all but on the way back home my two friends said that they do not wish to continue their friendship with him anymore. I was surprised and asked why! They said that being a Baha’i makes him a najis person and had they knew that he was a Baha’i, they would not have befriended him. I was puzzled and enquired why they think he was najis if we all were complementing him on his cleanliness. Also we all agreed that he was a morally superior man than all of the Muslim young men we knew: so why this sudden change of attitude? Their response was very disturbing. They said that the name itself had something in it that made them dislike this religion. Then they asked me whether I knew why everyone disliked the Baha’is. I told them I don’t know because I don’t dislike anyone. But since they dislike the Baha’is perhaps they should explain their reasons. They did not know why. This man was the first Baha’i they had come to know this close, and in fact he was an exemplar man. So I wanted to know the reason for their dislike. There was no particular reason, they said. It’s just they know that Baha’is are bad.
I am happy that I did not continue my friendship with these two bigots, yet from them I learned how prejudice is formed and operates.
Later I realized that these prejudices and hatreds that Muslims harbor in their hearts against almost all non-Muslims is not the result of any misinterpretation of the teachings of the Quran but is because this book teaches hate and encourages prejudice. There are many verses in the Quran that call the believers to hate the non-believers, fight them, call them najis, subdue and humiliate them chop their heads and limbs, crucify them and kill them wherever they find them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HudIzSOVaE
WHERE ARE YOU,WESTERN IDIOTS?
v tej temi ne bom odgovarjal,samo kopiral bom
če bo sploh kdo upu pisnt.. |
Hvala Jani, za tale tekst!
Užival sem ob tem branju. Res se dogaja vse skupaj še pod šahom Rezo Pahlavijem in je danes z diktaturo islamskega klera, prežetost iranske družbe z fundamentalističnim islamom še večje kot je bilo pod šahom.
Po drugi strani pa kaže na to, da je med iransko inteligenco seme, ki pošteno in kritično obravnava konzervativni verski pristop. In teh tudi v današnjem Iranu ni malo. Pravzaprav se tujcu tam dogaja, da v glavnem vzpostavi stik prav s takimi ljudmi. Zato se je treba zavedati, da to vseeno ni prevladujoče mišljenje, kajti bariere so velike - prva je jezik, druga pa nesprejemanje "nečistih" ali pripadnikov druge vere. Vendar se poznavanje angleščine vedno splete tudi s toleranco do "nevernikov".
Da pa je odpor do nevernikov velik, lahko sklepam, da mi še nikoli do sedaj ni uspelo vzpostaviti kontakta z kakšnim iranskim mulo. Že njihov sovražni pogled je prva ovira za kontakt, tudi če bi slučajno znali kakšen tuj jezik. Če to sovražnost prenašajo na svoje vernike, je tega zelo veliko. Ni pa spet takšno, da bi kot tujec imel zaradi tega težave z navadnimi ljudmi. Ko pa naletiš na kakšnega državnega birokrata, pa ti znajo zagreniti življenje, morda prav zanalašč, ker si tujec in za oblast potencionalni vohun. Morda je pa to pač delo birokratov, da otežujejo ljudem življenje?
Zanimiv je opis Pakistana in Pakistancev iz perspektive Iranca. Res je tako. Iran je za zahodnjaka še najmanjši kulturni šok. Pravi pride, ko prestopi v Mirjaveh na pakistansko stran! Čeprav je birokracija na iranski strani meje vsaj 10X hujša kot na pakistanski in uradno v Pakistanu pokrivanje žensk ni obvezno, vendar kar se tiče verskega fundamentalizma, ga je med navadnimi ljudmi veliko več kot v Iranu.
Zdaj pa k finalnemu vprašanju:
PO KAKŠNI LOGIKI IMA PAKISTAN PRAVICO IMETI NUKLEARNO OROŽJE - IRAN PA NE???? |
17- Why do you only talk about Islam? What about Christianity and Judaism that are as illogical as Islam?
The reason I focus mostly on Islam is because Christianity and Judaism are criticized already by many scholars born within Judaic and Christendoms.
Furthermore my fight is not against faith but against hate. I have no issue with religions that do not preach hate. Christianity, Judaism and other religions teach their followers to love. Islam is the only doctrine that teaches hate.
Most important of all, I have no business to criticize the religions of others, unless they become a danger to me. No one would pay attention anyway, because it is natural that the followers of different religions attack each other’s faiths. This kind of religious feuding has been going on since the beginning of the history of mankind. We have to see our own errors not the errors of others. We are responsible for ourselves not for others. If we find our own mistakes and bring them to the light, it is because we love our people. But if we point out the faults of others, they dismiss it, they become hostile and intensify their fanaticism. Christianity and Judaism represent no threat to the peace and security of the world.
Islam on the other hand, is a constant menace to the world peace and to the Muslims themselves who are capable to sacrifice their own lives in order to kill the "enemies" of Islam. A Persian proverb says: “Ze har tataf koshte shavad be naf’e Islam ast”. (No matter from which side people are killed it is a victory for Islam) The level of fanaticism is far greater amongst the average Muslims, than the average Christians or Jews. |
****The level of fanaticism is far greater amongst the average Muslims, than the average Christians or Jews.****
Veš da to drži!
Ni pa spet tako kritično, kot misliš ti in tudi ne tako kritično, da bi kristjan - popotnik ali turist v Iranu imel zaradi tega kakeršne koli težave.
Pa si se kdaj vprašal zakaj je tako?
V Kranju imate turistično agencijo Oskar turist klub, zraven Škoda servisa v Čirčah mislim. Oskarja vprašaj kaj o Iranu, redno vozi turiste v Iran. Zastopim, da meni ne verjameš, preveri še kakšen drug domači vir v živo, ki ni na googlu. Kot poznavalec Turčije je pa Oskar v Sloveniji verjetno na prvem mestu, mu niti do kolen ne sežem. |
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matt
Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 23:51
Prispevkov: 2651
Kraj: Lodainn an Iar
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| Objavljeno: 27 Feb 2007 20:58 Naslov sporočila: |
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WHERE ARE YOU,WESTERN IDIOTS?
v tej temi ne bom odgovarjal,samo kopiral bom
če bo sploh kdo upu pisnt.. |
najprej povej, kaj bi sploh rad.
to da si krvizeljan krizar, veeeemo. kej novga, pliz.
za pokusino (odgovor ce upas):
a je muslo s tebi neprimernimi stalisci glih tolk clovk kot ti al ne?
_________________
Ta tekst namerno ne obstaja. |
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mala malca
Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 04:56
Prispevkov: 17767
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| Objavljeno: 28 Feb 2007 00:40 Naslov sporočila: tell me something new... |
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quote]
****The level of fanaticism is far greater amongst the average Muslims, than the average Christians or Jews.****
Veš da to drži!
Ni pa spet tako kritično, kot misliš ti in tudi ne tako kritično, da bi kristjan - popotnik ali turist v Iranu imel zaradi tega kakeršne koli težave.
Pa si se kdaj vprašal zakaj je tako?
V Kranju imate turistično agencijo Oskar turist klub, zraven Škoda servisa v Čirčah mislim. Oskarja vprašaj kaj o Iranu, redno vozi turiste v Iran. Zastopim, da meni ne verjameš, preveri še kakšen drug domači vir v živo, ki ni na googlu. Kot poznavalec Turčije je pa Oskar v Sloveniji verjetno na prvem mestu, mu niti do kolen ne sežem.[/quote]
48 All Muslims are not terrorists. I am a Muslim and I am not fanatic and violent. I believe deeply in peace, love and toleration between all peoples. And the Qur'an is not "absolute darkness"
Of course all Muslims are not terrorists. This is an absurd statement. My grandmother never missed a prayer but I am sure she was a saint. I never met a woman as self-sacrificing, kind and loving as that pure soul. Do you really believe I think my beloved nana was a terrorist? I have met so many wonderful beings among Muslims that I met nowhere. There is something especial about us Middle Easterners that one cannot find anywhere else. Our hospitality is unmatched. We honor our words. We are warm and friendly people. You visit the house of an Arab, a Turk, an Afghan or a Persian and you are showered with so much love unparalleled in any other part of the world. It takes an idiot to call these people terrorists. You might have heard in the news when the Americans were bombing Afghanistan the Afghans were shielding American missionaries with their own bodies to make sure if there is a mishap they are not harmed. Are these people terrorists?
Our people are not terrorists just because they are born in an Islamic country and they think they are Muslims. Terrorists are those who follow the teachings of Muhammad. Quran is a book that inspires its followers to hate the non-believers, to kill them, subdue them and treat them as second-class citizens. But not all Muslims follow what Quran teaches. The majority of Muslims are not even aware of what Quran teaches or how Muhammad lived.
Take your own example. You say that you are not a fanatical violent person, you believe in peace, love and tolerance. Did you learn these qualities by reading Quran or are they part of your own family and society values? Let us see what Quran say:
3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah
Is this how you think about your Christian, Hindu or atheist neighbors? Do you really reject the friendship of good people just because they are not Muslims? If you answer in negative then you are not really following the teachings of Quran even though you call yourself a Muslim.
How about this teaching:
2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you
What do you say about this? Did you pack to go to Afghanistan to fight in the Jihad called by the Taliban? Do you think those who did that were wrong? Don’t you think teachings such as these motivate some people to become Jihadis and kill innocent kafirs? How can you reconcile your love for humanity with teachings these teachings?
What about this one?
4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.
Do you think this verse teaches tolerance?
Quran is replete with verses such as these. Don’t you think the Islamic terrorists get their inspirations from these verses?
You insist we should look the good in Quran. Everyone can preach and give good advice. We have to see how they exemplify those good preachings in their own lives. Please read the Ahadith, although many of those hadithes are fabricated, they gradually start to shed light on the person of Muhammad. You will find Muhammad to be a vengeful, ruthless, lustful, sadistic man. This is not slander made by his enemies. This is the picture of Muhammad emerging from the Hadith narrated and collected by those who loved him and believed in him. After reading few pages of the Hadith you will find Muhammad was an evil person. Hitler had one good quality. He was not a womanizer. Muhammad had all the vices of Hitler and he did not have any good quality. I cannot find any man worse than Muhammad when I review the despots, thugs and murderers in the annals of history
mimgrede,bral sem kropotkina...veš sploh kdo je to in o čem je pisal?
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Hja,prjatu,če bi ti jaz povedu kako je v Rusiji ,bi bil ti na drugi strani,bi bili naš sovražnik,te sedaj ne bi bilo...
Ivan Maček - Matija |
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mala malca
Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 04:56
Prispevkov: 17767
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| Objavljeno: 28 Feb 2007 00:47 Naslov sporočila: ali je muslo homo sapiens sapiens???????? |
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| matt je napisal/a: |
| Citiram: |
WHERE ARE YOU,WESTERN IDIOTS?
v tej temi ne bom odgovarjal,samo kopiral bom
če bo sploh kdo upu pisnt.. |
najprej povej, kaj bi sploh rad.
to da si krvizeljan krizar, veeeemo. kej novga, pliz.
za pokusino (odgovor ce upas):
a je muslo s tebi neprimernimi stalisci glih tolk clovk kot ti al ne? |
41- I am a Muslim who, after reading your articles, am having some doubts. The only thing that is hindering me from apostasizing is the fear of hell.
Appeal to Force is not a logical argument. This is called Argumentum ad baculum and it is a fallacy. It is not a logic but a threat. This argument could be (and is often used) by most of the religions. Since not all of them can be true, the argument is not a valid argument to establish the truth of any claim.
Argumentum ad baculum is used to bully people into submission with threats and fear mongering.
Everything that Muhammad said is proven to be wrong. Read about the errors of Quran in this site. This proves that Muhammad was not a messenger of God. He was a narcissist and a psychopath who manipulated ignorant people of Arabia with his lies so they could kill others, loot and make him rich and powerful. How can the creator of this universe be so petty and ruthless to put people in hell and torture them for eternity for not believing in him? Why he should even care that a bunch of naked apes in the planet Earth believe in him or not? Just envision the size of this universe and ask yourself could possibly the creator of this magnificent universe be so sadistic?
No my friend, Muhammad lied in everything he said. This is obvious when you see how many mistakes he made in Quran. So you can be more than sure that he lied also about Hell. But it worked. Many people throughout the centuries believed in his lies and feared to question his authority. Therefore this sick man maintained his dominance on the mind of the gullible for 1400 years. In fact if you read the Muslims' comments in this page, you'll see this fear is the only argument that they present.
Do not allow a fear mongering psychopath dictate your life. Read the Quran and see for yourself that Islam is not a religion of God.
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Hja,prjatu,če bi ti jaz povedu kako je v Rusiji ,bi bil ti na drugi strani,bi bili naš sovražnik,te sedaj ne bi bilo...
Ivan Maček - Matija |
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matt
Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 23:51
Prispevkov: 2651
Kraj: Lodainn an Iar
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| Objavljeno: 28 Feb 2007 01:19 Naslov sporočila: |
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pricakovano.
usral si se.
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Ta tekst namerno ne obstaja. |
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