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cobra · Pridružen/-a: 06.11. 2006, 20:59 Prispevkov: 2608

A , je ta , podobna tvoji bedariji kako se ovce striže na SiIOLU ???????
Ejla, KRETENKOTI - ste mel protestirat , oktobra 2006 ne pa z zamudo 5 mescev. Jao - ste kredibilni kao deca v komunistični školi !

Boo hoo!

_________________

Credo ut intelligam, non intelligo ut credam.
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
Facta non verba.

cobra · Pridružen/-a: 06.11. 2006, 20:59 Prispevkov: 2608

matt · Objavljeno: 11 Jan 2007 20:12 Naslov sporočila:

Zdej mam pa res pun kurac idiotov:

Facts:

06/12/2005

Extended excerpt - what Ahmadinejad actually said

If only western leaders could speak with such cohesion and intelligence. His one failing is that he didn't stand up to tell the world,'don't twist my words.' Perhaps he did not know they were doing it. I published the shorter except in October, pertaining to the part of the speech the BBC and others have corrupted, but this excerpt is in my opinion a great more illuminating.

[Members of the Iranian Academic Union and supporters of the Iranain Resistance display a caricature of Iranian mullahs' President Ahmadinejad with a nuclear bomb as a nose during a demonstration in Stockholm, Sweden. The demonstrators protested against Russia abstaining from the vote on Iran's nuclear program at the board of IAEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency of the United Nations.NCRI, October 28 ?] The following is an excerpt of remarks by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, mullahs? president, in a seminar in Tehran entitled ?WORLD WITHOUT ZIONISM? on October 26:

?We must see what the real story about Palestine is. Is the conflict in Palestine a war between the Jews, Muslims and non-Jews? Is it a conflict between the Jews and other religions? Is it a war between one country and other countries? Is it a war between one country and the Arab world? It is a dispute limited to Palestine territory? In my view, the answer to all these questions is negative.

?The creation of the occupying regime in Qods [Israel] is a strong action by the ruling arrogant (imperialist) world order against the world of Islam. There continues a historic war between the World Arrogance and the Islamic world, the roots of which go back hundreds of years ago. In this historic, the battleground has shifted repeatedly. For some time, the Muslims had the upper hand and advanced. The World Arrogance was on the retreat. Regrettably, the Islamic world has been on the retreat in the face of the World Arrogance in the past 300 years. Over the past 100 years, the last bastions of the Islamic world have collapsed. The World Arrogance turned the Zionist regime occupying Jerusalem into a staging-ground to dominate the Islamic world. This occupying country is in reality the staging-ground of the World Arrogance in the heart of the Islamic world. They have created a base, from where they can expand their rule over the entire Islamic world; it has no other purpose other than this. The war that is presently going on in Palestine is the frontline of the war of destiny between the Islamic world and the World Arrogance, which will determine the outcome of hundreds of years [of war] in Palestine. Today, as the representative of the Islamic nation, the people of Palestine are standing up to the World Arrogance. With God's blessing since the Palestinian nation turned to the Islamic struggle, objectives and atmosphere, and applied Islamic behavior and direction on its struggle, we are witness to successes and progress for the Palestinian nation everyday. The title of your meeting is indeed very valuable. Many sow the seeds of defeat and despair in this intense war between the Islamic world and the blasphemous front and hope to empty the hearts of the world of Islam. Such people wonder whether there would come a day when one would see a world without the United States and 'Zionism'. This slogan and goal is one which is attainable and could definitely be realized? Our nation remained steadfast. For the past 27 years, we have lived with a government that is not dependent on the United States. The Imam [Khomeini] said the domination of the West and the East must be ended. But weaklings who only saw the tip of their nose did not believe what he said. No one believed that some day we would see the collapse of the Soviet Empire. They used to say it is an iron-clad rule. But we saw its collapse in our life time. That regime collapse so dramatically that we must go to libraries to read about it as there are no signs of it left. Our dear Imam [Ruhollah Khomeini] ordered that the occupying regime in Jerusalem be wiped off the face of the earth. This was a very wise statement. The issue of Palestine is not one which we could compromise on?. Whoever accepts the existence of this entity has signed onto the defeat of the Islamic world.

?In his crusade against the World Arrogance, our dear Imam targeted the central and command base of the enemy, namely the occupying regime in Jerusalem. I have no doubt that the new wave [of attacks] which has started in dear Palestine and which we witness today all over the Islamic world will soon wipe this scourge of shame from the Islamic world. This is doable? For the past 50 years the United States had been trying to give legitimacy to Israel? Twenty-eight years ago, they took an important stride to this end. One country on the frontlines of the war, or Egypt, made the mistake of recognized the Jewish state. We hope it would rectify this error?. With the excuse of having cleared the Gaza Strip to show their good will, they want a group of Muslim nations to recognize this corrupt regime, and I am very hopeful and call on God that the Palestinian people and the dear Palestinian groups will be cautious of such sedition. The issue in Palestine is by no means finished. The Palestinian issue will only be resolved when all of Palestine comes under stringent Palestinian rule. When refugees will have returned to their homes? Of course, those who have come to this land from far away places to plunder it have no right to make a decision for the Palestinian nation. I am hopeful that just as the Palestinian nation continued its struggle for the past ten years, they will continue to keep their awareness and vigilance. The current period is going to be short-lived. If we put it behind us successfully, god willing, it will pave the way for the destruction and the downfall of the Zionist regime. I warn all heads of other Islamic states to beware of the sedition by Israel. If some, who are under pressure by the dominating powers, follow a misguided policy or are na?ve, or selfish or have earthly desires, recognize this regime (Israel), they should know that they would be burnt in the fire of the Islamic Ummah (Nation) and will bear an eternal stigma on their foreheads. Look at the world scene. Who are we facing? We must recognize the depth of the enemy's maliciousness, so as to keep ablaze our sacred hatred and vengeance?. In the streets of Tehran, terrorist groups were murdering the people. Now, they freely come to Congress and your government and you pay for them, while you are claiming to defend human rights."

[edit Dec 2005] I just found this - its a different translation to the line in question - illuminates the message a little better than even what is shown above:

Imam [Khomeini] said: 'This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history.' This sentence is very wise. The issue of Palestine is not an issue on which we can compromise.

The regime that is occupying Jerusalem must be removed from history.

That is a wise statement. Especially when taken in context with the rest of the speech (more can be found here), where we see this as a build-up showing the things that Imam prophecied have come true - the fall of USSR, the fall of Saddam, and then finally the fall of the regime in Jerusalem.

Hope is a powerful thing - but the important question is: Did Iran orchestrate the fall of the USSR or Iraq?

Of course, the answer is no - both, effectively, were done by the US. Why then are we led to believe that Iran will orchestrate this one?

[end edit]

[edit 12/06/06]

Some great letter by David Sketchley to the BBC regarding the myth of that phrase 'wipe Israel off the map' which has now been enshrined in the minds of Westerners thanks to the misinformation of our corporate media.

-----------------------------

Subject: Ahmadinejad say that Israel should be "wiped off the map"

Dear Helen Boaden,

I have just done a search on the BBC website using the words "wiped off the map". Out of 21 results over 3 pages, 15 articles refer to Iranian President Ahmadinejad and his "call" for Israel to be "wiped off the map".

I would like to enquire where the BBC got the phrase "wiped off the map"? Considering the BBC has its own Farsi speaking journalists and translators one would presume that these would have translated Ahmadinejad's speech. Is this correct? Did this phrase emanate from Farsi translators working for the BBC or was it "lifted" from the NYT? ( http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/weekinreview/30iran.html )

I ask this, you see, because MEMRI (the Middle East Media Research Institute), gives this as the correct translation: ""'Imam [Khomeini] said: 'This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history.' This sentence is very wise. The issue of Palestine is not an issue on which we can compromise."
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP101305

This sentence comes immediately after 4 paragraphs which when taken together belie the BBC translaton.

""'When the dear Imam [Khomeini] said that [the Shah's] regime must go, and that we demand a world without dependent governments, many people who claimed to have political and other knowledge [asked], 'Is it possible [that the Shah’s regime can be toppled]?'

"'That day, when Imam [Khomeini] began his movement, all the powers supported [the Shah's] corrupt regime&ldots; and said it was not possible. However, our nation stood firm, and by now we have, for 27 years, been living without a government dependent on America. Imam [Khomeni] said: 'The rule of the East [U.S.S.R.] and of the West [U.S.] should be ended.' But the weak people who saw only the tiny world near them did not believe it.

"'Nobody believed that we would one day witness the collapse of the Eastern Imperialism [i.e. the U.S.S.R], and said it was an iron regime. But in our short lifetime we have witnessed how this regime collapsed in such a way that we must look for it in libraries, and we can find no literature about it.

"'Imam [Khomeini] said that Saddam [Hussein] must go, and that he would be humiliated in a way that was unprecedented. And what do you see today? A man who, 10 years ago, spoke as proudly as if he would live for eternity is today chained by the feet, and is now being tried in his own country... "

As you can see from this translation the previous paragraphs talked about various regimes: the Shah's regime, the Communist regime in USSR, and Saddam Hussein, all examples of apparently invincible regimes that ceased to exist. They weren't "wiped off the map" (although the US is giving it a good shot in Iraq!)

University of Michigan history professor Juan Cole also translated the phrase and argued in a private, off-the-record email group that the "wiped off the map" translation was wrong:

"I object to the characterization of Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as having "threatened to wipe Israel off the map." I object to this translation of what he said on two grounds. First, it gives the impression that he wants to play Hitler to Israel's Poland, mobilizing an armored corps to move in and kill people. But the actual quote, which comes from an old speech of [Ayatollah] Khomeini, does not imply military action, or killing anyone at all.

The second reason is that it is just an inexact translation. The phrase is almost metaphysical. He quoted Khomeini that "the occupation regime over Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time." It is in fact probably a reference to some phrase in a medieval Persian poem. It is not about tanks."

Cole then goes on to state: "The phrase he then used as I read it is "The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] from the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)." Ahmadinejad was not making a threat, he was quoting a saying of Khomeini and urging that pro-Palestinian activists in Iran not give up hope-- that the occupation of Jerusalem was no more a continued inevitability than had been the hegemony of the Shah's government. Whatever this quotation from a decades-old speech of Khomeini may have meant, Ahmadinejad did not say that "Israel must be wiped off the map" with the implication that phrase has of Nazi-style extermination of a people. He said that the occupation regime over Jerusalem must be erased from the page of time. Again, Ariel Sharon erased the occupation regime over Gaza from the page of time."
http://www.juancole.com/2006/05/hitchens-hacker-and-hitchens.html

As you can see both the MEMRI translation and Juan Cole's are virtually identical and make no mention of Israel being "wiped off the map".

Iranian officials have also challenged the translation:

Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki during a Feb. news conference:
"Mottaki also denied during a press conference in Brussels that Tehran wanted to see Israel "wiped off the map."
"Nobody can remove a country from the map. This is a misunderstanding in Europe of what our president mentioned," he said. "How is it possible to remove a country from the map? He is talking about the regime. We do not recognize legally this regime."
http://www.forward.com/main/article.php?ref=perelman20060223131

Ambassador Ali Asghar Soltanieh on CNN on 02 April 2006:
"BLITZER: But should there be a state of Israel?
SOLTANIEH: I think I've already answered to you. If Israel is a synonym and will give the indication of Zionism mentality, no.
But if you are going to conclude that we have said the people there have to be removed or we they have to be massacred or so, this is fabricated, unfortunate selective approach to what the mentality and policy of Islamic Republic of Iran is. I have to correct, and I did so."
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/02/le.01.html"

I accept that translations are a tricky business. I live in Spain and translate all the time. But there is no denying that those with political agendas can selectively choose translations to obscure the big picture and manipulate the media.

Hopefully the BBC can understand that they should be extra careful with translations pushed by those who are behind the White House agenda to dishonestly paint the Iranian government as irrational, a blatant attempt at "shaping" public opinion in order to fast-track us to war. I insist that the BBC correct the translations in all the relevant articles and refrain from using blatant propaganda in the future. The speech in Persian is here:
http://www.president.ir/farsi/ahmadinejad/speeches/1384/aban-84/840804sahyonizm.htm

Thank you for taking the time to read this mail. I would be interested to hear your remarks before I make an official complaint to the BBC.

Yours Sincerely,

David Sketchley
Seville, Spain

-------------------------------------------------------

To which the BBC responded:

Dear Mr Sketchley

Thank you for your message regarding the translation of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's comments.

We apologise for the delay in responding, but we wanted to make inquiries with our BBC monitors and with the Persian section of the World Service. We have also taken note of a recent ruling on this issue by the BBC Governors' programme complaints committee.

The general consensus is that the expression used by the Iranian president is not easily translatable verbatim into English. Various different versions have been offered. The BBC monitor translated it as 'Our dear Imam (Khomeini) has said that the Qods-occupying regime (Israel) should be wiped off the map of the world'. The MEMRI translation was 'The regime that is occupying Qods must be eliminated from the pages of history. The Al Jazeera online version was 'As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map'.

It is hard to establish which, if any, of these translations is entirely accurate. What is clear is that, in this highly rhetorical speech, the essence of what the president was saying was that Israel should cease to exist as a state.

The fact that the phrase was itself a quotation from Ayatollah Khomeini does not, in our opinion, change the sense of the speech. Mr Ahmadinejad reinforces the point when he goes on to say: 'The government that runs all of Palestine should belong to the Palestinian nation. The refugees should return and there should be free elections .. Of course those who have come from distant counties to loot the country will have no right to decide for Palestine.'

With best wishes

The BBC News website

------------------------------------------

To which David Sketchley responded:

I am not satisfied with this response as I have not received an answer to my questions:

1. I would like to enquire where the BBC got the phrase "wiped off the map"? Considering the BBC has its own Farsi speaking journalists and translators one would presume that these would have translated Ahmadinejad's speech. Is this correct? Did this phrase emanate from Farsi translators working for the BBC or was it "lifted" from the NYT? ( http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/weekinreview/30iran.html?ex=1147060800&en=b576831d71ce0c6a&ei=5070 ).

The reply I received has confirmed my suspicions that the BBC only referred the speech to its Persian monitor/translator after receiving complaints about the phrase "wiped off the map" while it originally used the New York Times translation but I require a definitive answer please. Is this so?

2. The reply states "We have also taken note of a recent ruling on this issue by the BBC Governors' programme complaints committee." There is no information on this ruling nor was a link given so that I can study it. Please could you provide me with a copy or a link to where I can read the ruling. How can you possibly refer to a ruling and then not give any information on that ruling?

3. There is no reference in the reply to Prof Juan Cole's translation ("The phrase he then used as I read it is "The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] from the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)." Ahmadinejad was not making a threat, he was quoting a saying of Khomeini and urging that pro-Palestinian activists in Iran not give up hope-- that the occupation of Jerusalem was no more a continued inevitability than had been the hegemony of the Shah's government. Whatever this quotation from a decades-old speech of Khomeini may have meant, Ahmadinejad did not say that "Israel must be wiped off the map" with the implication that phrase has of Nazi-style extermination of a people. He said that the occupation regime over Jerusalem must be erased from the page of time. Again, Ariel Sharon erased the occupation regime over Gaza from the page of time."
http://www.juancole.com/2006/05/hitchens-hacker-and-hitchens.html ).

Why not?

For your information Juan Cole is the Richard Hudson Research Professor of History and professor in the Center for Middle Eastern and North African Studies at the University of Michigan. His current research interests focus on Shiite Islam in Iraq and Iran and "jihadi" or "sacred-war" themes within contemporary radical Islamic movements such as al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Cole speaks Arabic, Urdu and Persian. He finished his master's degree at the American University in Cairo and spent a year working for a newspaper in Beirut, mainly translating Arabic newswire stories into English.

Why do you dismiss his translation without mention?

4. You state " "It is hard to establish which, if any, of these translations is entirely accurate." and then "What is clear is that, in this highly rhetorical speech, the essence of what the president was saying was that Israel should cease to exist as a state."

What complete nonsense. How can the BBC claim to know what Ahmadinejad meant? Do the BBC somehow know what Ahmadinejad is thinking? If its hard to estabish the accuracy of a translation how on earth can the BBC then interpret the "essence" of Ahmadinejad's words in the way they do, especially when members of the Iranian "regime" have actually explained the "essence" in a completely different way? Where is the balance and fairness?

Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki during a Feb. news conference:
"Nobody can remove a country from the map. This is a misunderstanding in Europe of what our president mentioned. How is it possible to remove a country from the map? He is talking about the regime. We do not recognize legally this regime"
http://www.forward.com/main/article.php?ref=perelman20060223131

An example: Does the US recognise the "regime" in Cuba? No. Would it like the "regime" in Cuba to cease to exist? Of course. Does this mean the US wants to see Cuba "wiped off the map"? Of course not, although there is no doubt it would like to see Castro and his "regime" "wiped off the map"!

If he did not say “wiped off the face of the map” then he did not say that. If he said “vanish from the page of time” then he did say that. There is a difference in connotation, and the BBC is being lazy in not examining the issue. And also highly irresponsible, since the quotation as it stands suggests a military action that is nowhere implied in the original.

5. In your reply you state "The BBC monitor translated it as 'Our dear Imam (Khomeini) has said that the Qods-occupying regime (Israel) should be wiped off the map of the world'".

Why then was this not quoted in full in all the BBC articles mentioning this quote at the time? Nowhere does any article on the BBC website state that this was the BBC translation, we only see the 4-word phrase "wiped off the map". On the other hand the NYT states quite clearly under the heading: “This is a translation, by Nazila Fathi in The New York Times Tehran bureau, of the October 26 speech by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to an Islamic Student Associations conference on "The World Without Zionism." The conference was held in Tehran, at the Interior Ministry.
The text of the speech was posted online, in Persian, by the Iranian Student News Agency (www.isnagency.com). Bracketed explanatory material is from Ms. Fathi.”

There was also no mention at the time in any article on the BBC website that the BBC Persian monitors had translated this phrase and speech, and the length of time taken to respond to my letter and the wording of that reply “We apologise for the delay in responding, but we wanted to make inquiries with our BBC monitors and with the Persian section of the World Service.” implies that they hadn't. In fact, based on the evidence, there is no doubt that the BBC used this phrase after taking it from the New York Times, and if this is so it is a scandal of the highest order.

In the interests of transparency, the BBC should state in any and all its articles either when the BBC has itself translated material from other languages or when the BBC uses other peoples translations.

6. In the article linked here “Annan 'dismayed' by Iran remarks“ ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4384024.stm ) the BBC stated: “Mr Ahmadinejad made his comments at a conference on Wednesday in Tehran entitled The World without Zionism. Referring to Iran's late revolutionary leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, Mr Ahmadinejad said: "As the imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."” Of course this quote is a complete fabrication. As the BBC has itself confirmed nowhere does Ahmadinejad refer to Israel by name.

7. The translations of other so-called (by the BBC) “threats” are now also called into doubt:

Israel condemns Iranian threats
Saturday, 15 April 2006
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4912198.stm
(the word “threats” was used by Shimon Peres and consequently should have appeared in the title in quotation marks - yet another acceptance as fact of something someone has said)

In the above article the BBC states:
“The Iranian president's outspoken declarations, questioning whether the Holocaust happened and predicting Israel's destruction, have been condemned around the world. But he has not tempered his comments, on Friday declaring: "The Zionist regime is an injustice and by its very nature a permanent threat. "Whether you like it or not, the Zionist regime is on the road to being eliminated." "[It] is a decaying and crumbling tree that will fall with a storm," he added”
I will ask once again: Was this speech (and therefore these direct quotes) translated from the Persian by the BBC?

I don’t believe this to be so. Notice how the NYT translation and the BBC's are exactly the same:

NYT: "The Zionist regime is an injustice and by its very nature a permanent threat," Mr. Ahmadinejad said during his speech at the conference. "Whether you like it or not, the Zionist regime is on the road to being eliminated." He referred to Israel as a "rotten, dried tree" that would collapse in "one storm."
Original here (pay to view):

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50C15FB3D5B0C768DDDAD0894DE404482
Copy here:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/tree.htm”

This translation by the NYT was done by exactly the same individual who translated the Israel to be "wiped off the map" phrase, one Nazila Fathi of The New York Times Tehran bureau.

However the official translation of this speech provided by IRNA says this:

“Peace and harmonious relations can only be based on towhid, human dignity and justice. Oppressions and aggressions are not compatible with human dignity and justice. The Zionist regime is a clear example of oppression and its fundamental nature represents actual and permanent threat. The very purpose behind the establishment of this regime was to put in place a permanent threat in the region.

Therefore, the continued existence of this regime is premised on the persistence of this threat. It will have no existence without threat and aggression and it is not inherently capable to survive in an atmosphere of peace and tranquility. Even if it manages to remain in one square meter of the Palestinian land, it will continue to be a threat to the region.

"Take a good look at the bullying powers of the world. When it comes to supporting the Zionist regime, they recognize no red line and boundaries for justice, human rights and human dignity. The usurper Zionist regime is the meeting point of the injustices and brutalities of the corrupt bullying powers.

"Only a government chosen by the people can resolve the problem of Palestine and the people of the region. The right to govern belongs to all people of Palestine and they must decide the governing model of their choice and elect their own officials.

"For this purpose, there must be an opportunity for all genuine Palestinians; be they Muslims, Christians, or Jews, residing in Palestine or in Diaspora, to participate in a referendum to decide the political system of their choice and elect their leaders.
"In other words, the only rational way which is compatible with the generally recognized international norms is holding of a referendum for all genuine Palestinians.

"The supporters of the Zionist regime prefer to remain silent in face of this reasonable proposition. But I tell them that regardless of what they desire, the Zionist regime is falling apart.

"The young tree of resistance in Palestine is blooming and blooms of faith and desire for freedom are flowering.

"The Zionist regime is a decaying and crumbling tree that will fall with a storm. Today even the inhabitants of the occupied Palestine, especially the African and Asian settlers are living in ain, poverty and discontent.

"I tell the governments supporting the Zionist regime to open the doors to the prisons in the occupied Palestine and allow the refugees and displaced Palestinians to return to their homeland and summon the usurpers of the Palestinian lands.

"If you still consider yourself indebted to them, then find a proper place for them in your own territories, if not call upon them to return to their countries of origin to live like their
forefathers.”http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-22/0604141529205548.htm

So both the BBC and the NYT have EXACTLY the same translation and both take the phrase “The Zionist regime is an injustice and by its very nature a permanent threat” out of any context, and then use the word “eliminated” thus contriving to present the 3 phrases (all taken out of context) as a “threat” while on reading the official translation with the everything in context one sees quite clearly there is no threat at all.

This is an outrageous attempt to mislead the public.

8. In your reply you make no reference whatsoever to the context of the speech in which I maintain there has been a mistranslation. The context of the speech talks about the different regimes that ceased to exist, in fact one of them, the USSR, has ceased to exist and has literally been wiped from the map.

In fact wasn’t one of the stated reasons given by both Bush and Blair for the invasion of Iraq (after the WMD failed to materialise) “regime change”? Didn’t both Bush and Blair want to see Saddam’s "regime" cease to exist? The Downing Street Memo states:

“When the prime minister discussed Iraq with President Bush at Crawford in April,” states the paper, “he said that the UK would support military action to bring about regime change.”

“John Scarlett summarised the intelligence and latest JIC assessment. Saddam's regime was tough and based on extreme fear. The only way to overthrow it was likely to be by massive military action”

“Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record.”

“The attorney-general made his position clear, telling the meeting that “the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action”.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1592724,00.html

So the desire for regime change through military action appears for the BBC then not to be such a great deal when its the US/UK who want it and do it, (both countries who have used aggressive force against other countries withn the last 50 years), but when it is mentioned by Iran, (without any reference to military action) a country that has attacked no one for over 250 years, then it is considered by the BBC to be a dire, unnacceptable "threat"? What amazing hypocrisy.

I would like a full response to my complaint point by point 1-8. I am fully prepared to take this complaint to the BBC Governors if I do not receive a satisfactory explanation within the 10 day timescale – I am still waiting for a response to another official complaint made nearly 3 weeks ago on 05 May 2006 to which I have not yet received so much as an acknowledgement.

Yours Sincerely,

David Sketchley
Seville, Spain

---------------------------------------------

More on this topic, and more emails sent to the BBC can be found at MediaLens
[end edit]

[further edit 14/06/06]

Jonathon Steele's article in the Guardian (posted on the above link at Medialens) which sets out much the same research David Sketchley has provided, was countered by yet another article in the NYT a few days later.

After some more research, Steele wrote another article, which can be found here

An excerpt follows, which shows, perhaps, the extraordinary reluctance of the BBC to set their record straight, simply because the issue is contentious, perhaps. Or, to phrase it differently, they would lose too much face.

"Finally we come to the BBC monitoring service which every day puts out hundreds of highly respected English translations of broadcasts from all round the globe to their subscribers - mainly governments, intelligence services, thinktanks and other specialists. I approached them this week about the controversy and a spokesperson for the monitoring service's marketing unit, who did not want his name used, told me their original version of the Ahmadinejad quote was "eliminated from the map of the world".

As a result of my inquiry and the controversy generated, they had gone back to the native Farsi-speakers who had translated the speech from a voice recording made available by Iranian TV on October 29 2005. Here is what the spokesman told me about the "off the map" section: "The monitor has checked again. It's a difficult expression to translate. They're under time pressure to produce a translation quickly and they were searching for the right phrase. With more time to reflect they would say the translation should be "eliminated from the page of history".

Would the BBC put out a correction, given that the issue had become so controversial, I asked. "It would be a long time after the original version", came the reply. I interpret that as "probably not", but let's see." - Jonathon Steele - the Guardian

from The Guardian

[end edit]
_________________
Ta tekst namerno ne obstaja.

matt · Objavljeno: 11 Jan 2007 20:20 Naslov sporočila: In se to:

Jani fak of. RESNO. Ne mene tle jebat z zimikanjem teme - holokaust oz. dvom je tule stranska zadeva. Jest govorim o NAMERNI LAZI, SPREVRACANJU IZJAVE z ocitnim namenom justifikacije preemptive napada.

Treba je idiotom kot si ti prikazat, da je iran groznja. Da ima namen unicit izrael. In da mora usa ukrepat "preden o prepozno". Zbombandirat iran v kameno dobo.

Ta film smo vidl v primeru iraka - sadam ima wmd in v 45 min ga bo uporabu in mamo reasons to believe da bo napadu lih zdejle in zato ga mormo fentat.

Tle gre cist ocitno za demonizacijo prihodnje zrtve. In kupovanje naklonjenosti svetovne javnosti.

KER TAKI DEBILI KOT TI HOCEJO TO SLISAT, IN BOJO TULIL GO UNCLE SAM NUKE'EM! IN KER MAJO ZAL TAKI DEBILI VOLILNO PRAVICO, BOJO NJIHOVI ZUNANJI MINISTRI VOLJNO BUSHU POLIZALI RIT IN PRITRDILI GOFOR IT GEORGE! IN BO ZRADIRANIH PAR "INSURGENTS NESTS", OZ. BERI PAR DESETTISOC CIVILOV, JER JE GLEDALAC IZ RADOVLCE TO ZELEO DA VIDI.

JANI, TI BOS SOODGOVOREN ZA TE ZRTVE.
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mala malca · Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 04:56 Prispevkov: 17767

mala malca · Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 04:56 Prispevkov: 17767

NATAWE · Objavljeno: 12 Jan 2007 17:16 Naslov sporočila: Re: ulala

mala malca · Pridružen/-a: 07.11. 2006, 04:56 Prispevkov: 17767

cobra · Pridružen/-a: 06.11. 2006, 20:59 Prispevkov: 2608

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Spletne strani, brezplačna izdelava in namestitev | Poceni letalske karte | Letalske karte | Poceni hoteli